On 10/28/2013 8:16 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/28/2013 09:50 AM, wrote:

And again, who says that your circuit box (panel)can't be
grounded to the water pipe? In fact, it's a code
requirement that if a metal water pipe enters the
house that the panel be grounded in part to that metal pipe.

Not exactly. It useta be the case that a copper or steel water service
could be used as the grounding means for an electrical panel. Today, it
functionally can work that way,

"Can"?
If there is a metal water service pipe (10 ft...) it is *required* to be
used as an earthing electrode.

but it is not code compliant to rely on
the water service for the ground.

For over 50 years you needed a "supplemental" electrode if the water
service pipe might be replaced with plastic. More recently you need a
"supplemental" electrode in any case.


However, you are still required to
*bond* the panel ground bus to the water service, assuming that it's
metal. So it still looks the same, but the reasoning behind that
identical connection is very different.

Nonsense.
If you have a plastic water service, interior metal water piping must be
"bonded" to the electrical ground.

If there is a metal water service (10ft...) it is *required* to be
connected as an earthing electrode.


A new construction house would require an additional ground wire at the
electrical panel and that would go outside and be connected to a network
of several ground rods driven into the ground, *that* being the primary
means of grounding.

Wrong again.
Earthing electrodes form a system.
A metal municipal water system will have a lower resistance to earth
than any other electrode available at a house.
Ground rods are close to a joke.
In new construction with a concrete footing or foundation a "concrete
encased electrode" must be created. It is a good electrode (and ground
rods are not required).


The phone, CATV, etc. *should* be grounded back to the electrical panel,
although functionally if they are connected to the water service, and
that in turn is bonded to the panel, which is connected to a network of
ground rods, that will in effect be a more roundabout way of
accomplishing the same thing.

For quite a while entry protectors, if they are connected to the water
pipe (metal water service) must be connected within 5 ft of the entry to
the house. The earthing electrode connection must be connected in the
same 5 feet. (and of course, bonded water meter.)




And in older homes, not unusual to see the cable
or phone system wires being grounded to a cold water
pipe near where they enter the building. It's not
a safety issue or something that needs to be corrected.

Agreed, but like I said above, current code does not recognize a metal
water service as being a grounding means anymore but as something that
needs to be bonded to an accepted ground.

Wrong still, twice.


It would appear from the OP's message that his house is one of those
special cases that illustrates just *why* this change in code was made;
clearly he does not have a modern code compliant grounding network
and/or the water pipes inside the house are not bonded to same, and the
water service is not providing a good ground either because a jumper
over an insulating element like a meter is missing/corroded or a metal
service has been replaced by ABS or some nonconductive material.

I don't have a clue what the OP has.

And it's all pointless anyway, because the OP
clearly doesn't have the skills to figure out what
is or isn't the problem anyway.

We can always learn. But this is one of those things that needs to be
approached with caution...

nate