On Monday, October 21, 2013 9:01:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:24:06 -0700, SteveB

wrote:



On 9/26/2013 4:56 PM, Alex Gunderson wrote:

I realize this is a legal question but has anyone here had this happen.

Any advice?



1. Bought a house, as is, in 2010, which came with a 1,000 gallon propane tank attached.

2. Entered into agreement with fuel company "1" for fuel in 2010.

3. No tank rental is paid to fuel company 1 because it's not their tank

4. Recently a workman (inspecting the tank because of a new BBQ) mentioned that company 2 owns the tank

5. Company 2 was recently bought by company 1.



Nothing more has happened, but, who owns that tank?



I feel "I" own it by virtue of multiple circumstances (but I'm not a lawyer!):

a. I bought the house and everything attached to it

b. I never signed an agreement with company 2

c. Company 2 abandoned that tank long ago (IMHO)



I suspect, if company 1 wants to assert ownership of that tank, they could say:

A. Company 2 originally owned the tank

B. Company 2 still owns that tank

C. Therefore, company 1 (who owns company 2) owns that tank.



Have you ever been in this situation?

What advice do you have for me?



TIA



I can offer only my same experiences in similar situations, and as in

one size does not fit all, here goes.



Basically, the best first thing to do is to call the local supplier(s).

Those would be the people who you will be dealing with on an ongoing

relationship to come and fill the tank, make sure it is up to snuff code

wise, and inspection wise.



I am familiar with high pressure vessels, and vessels containing various

gases from my welding expertise. Ownership of said vessel may not be

what it appears, and by that I mean that if a dealer "owns" a vessel,

and has been renting/leasing that vessel to a homeowner, they still

retain legal ownership. It does not matter to the legal owner that the

possessor of such item "sells" it to another person, that person may not

be legally capable of "SELLING" such an item. It would be like selling

a leased car. IOW, the seller of the house may have been "selling"

something that they did not own, such as a leased water treatment

system, or other things that may be in the possession of the homeowner,

yet be owned by another person.



In such a case, the seller was obligated to divulge to you under

disclosure laws that certain item(s) were not the seller's to sell.



Which brings us back to the starting point. And that is .......... call

the company who "may" own the tank, and explain to them the situation.

That you want to do the right thing, although the seller might have not.

They will want your future business, and I would think they would give

a little ground here, wanting your future and ongoing business.



You are in a bad place here, possibly insisting that property that is

actually "stolen" from the legal owner is in your possession, which may

be the case. Do not insist on yours "rights", and "possession is

nine-tenths stuff.



I think that if you approach the company with the right attitude, that

they should do the right thing, want your future business, and work out

a solution.





Let us know how it shakes out.



Steve



I just sold a home with a similar situation. The house was leased by

tenants several years ago. The tenants acquired the tank. I assume

they leased it from the local propane company (there is only one company

nearby). These tenants were evicted and left on bad terms with me. The

home has been vacant for over 2 years, and I had it listed to sell. In

the meantime that tank has remained, and has not been filled. Last

month I sold the property. In the contract to sell, I made sure to

mention that the ownership of this tank is unknown, and that it likely

belongs to a propane company. I went on to state that the buyer knows

that the tank may be removed by such company, or that there may be other

limitations attached to it's use, such as it may only be filled by the

company that provides the tank, or that there may be rental fees. Then

I described the tank by size, and color (which does not really identify

it because they all look about the same). I did mention that there is

no company label on the tank to state who owns it, or other means of

identification. Just to be safe, I took a photo of the tank.



This way, I'm protected from having any legal repercussions at a later

date, because the buyers know that the tank may be removed or require

special conditions.



Normally those tanks bear the label of the company that owns them, if

they are rented tanks, and those who are owned by individuals have no

label. Since this one has no label, and I was unable to determine how

it got there, I had our lawyer write the contract to be sure the buyers

know this. The rest of their contract states that everything on the

property is being sold with the home, with the exception of this

questionable tank.



I verbally suggested to the buyers to inquire with the local propane

supplier, or just get it filled and see what happens.


Sounds like you did it the right and honest way.





Quite honestly, I think that a company that leases out propane tanks

should label them as to ownership, by placing their name and contact

info on them. That would eliminate issues such as this. Either way, I

am protected from any issues regarding this tank, by clearly stating

this in the contract.

That's a good point. I'm surprised that they aren't labeled
with the company's name, assuming it's leased. Of course someone
could always try to remove the info, but that wouldn't happen
in most cases and it would avoid a lot of problems.

The other thing I'm surprised doesn't happen is for the company
supplying gas to come put some kind of info tag on the tank
when the person receiving service terminates it. I would think
that in almost all cases, the previous person is going to call
to terminate, because they don't want bills continuing in their
name. You'd think the company might send someone out to put
a tag on the tank, saying, it's ours, to resume service call
us, etc. With no name, contact info, etc on the tank, it
can create all kinds of problems.