On Apr 10, 10:57*am, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:46:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Just google and you'll find credible sources from
NEJM to govt agencies all saying it's dangerous to mix ammonia and
bleach. *I provided you with two such links.
No, you didn't.
Yes I did liar. YOU have provided no sources, nothing, to back up
your claim that it's an urban myth that mixing bleach and ammonia
can seriously harm you.
You can't believe everything you read on the internet, including stuff that comes from me.
A strawman. No one here is suggesting anyone should believe
everything they read on the internet. But anyone with google can
find countless CREDIBLE sources for the fact that mixing ammonia
with bleach can produce gas that is deadly. Those sources include
the case report I gave you from the NEJM. Just how stupid are you?
Your very first link is so badly written your BS detector should have pegged immediately. *The fact you didn't notice pretty much ended your credibility, and I didn't pay enough attention to your second link, which was a bit better.
There was nothing BS about either of the links. You wanted chemical
equations, the PHD supplied them. The fact that you don't accept
them
matters not a wit.
Now as for credibility, it was YOU who implied that because something
is used in drinking water to disinfect it, that means that compound is
not
dangerous. What kind of idiot would ignore the fact that the
concentrations
in drinking water are in the PPM range, while what you get out of a
bucket
mixed in front of you is obviously many orders of magnitude greater.
Chlorine gas can be used in drinking water. Even a fool knows that
whiffing it out of a bucket, it could kill you.
Look, this ammonia and bleach thing has been discussed on the net for decades. *Even Uncle Al has weighed in. *Much garbage has been written about various toxic gases supposedly produced, most of it totally silly. *I mean, phosgene? *really?
Read the NEJM article of the woman who nearly died, imbecile.
In some isolated cases, with high usage in a confined space, there have been some medical cases. *There have been just as many with ammonia alone under similar circumstances. *It's not a good idea to mix the two - but it's not the deadly hazard often claimed. *That woman was in a closed freezer with no ventilation for 30 minutes? *Doh.
Sure, who knows better, the Drs and experts that treated the patient
and
found it important to publish, or you?
Here's more for you, from the LA Times:
A Deadly Mix of Household Cleansers : Poisonings Result When Products
Are Combined
February 04, 1986|ALLAN PARACHINI | Times Staff Writer
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-02-...sehold-cleaner
A report about three women who nearly died because they mixed ammonia-
based cleaners and laundry bleach has brought renewed warnings by
poison experts of the potentially deadly dangers of combining
seemingly innocuous household products.
And at the same time, poison center officials in Los Angeles and
Denver agreed that reactions, ranging from nose and throat irritation
to death, are so common among victims of such inadvertent chemical
accidents that they are an almost daily occurrence.
The first of the two reactions was the cause of the three new cases
reported in Chest by Drs. George Reisz and Roger Gammon of the
University of Missouri's pulmonary division. In all three cases, women
cleaning their homes had mixed bleach and ammonia cleaners together,
believing that the combination would improve results.
Instead, the women involved cleaned for several hours in small rooms
with little ventilation--not realizing that slight differences in the
chemistry of ammonia cleaners and bleach lead to a reaction when the
two are combined that produces a gas called chloramine, which can
quickly have potentially deadly effects.
In one case, the victim continued cleaning even though a young man
helping her stopped almost immediately, complaining of eye, nose and
throat irritation. All three women eventually collapsed and were taken
to hospitals by paramedics. In the emergency room, doctors mistook the
symptoms for signs of respiratory distress unrelated to chemical
exposure in all cases.
All three eventually recovered, but they had average hospital stays of
nearly 27 days.
And it's not explosive. *Sure, pure chloramine is, at least the trichloro form, but nothing you or I can do will produce that.
And it's dangerous misinformation, because there IS a combination of household chemicals that WILL get you in trouble fast.
You've earned your addition to the list of the true village idiots.