"Frank Ketchum" wrote in message
link.net...

"xrongor" wrote in message
...


so if we want to bomb france or britain or china, all we need to do is
find
some al-qaida members in their country? finding them in a country =
must
be
associated with the government? sorry frank. nobody's buying this.


We would bomb ourselves then. No, this is clearly not the case and you
have
to try hard to paint what's going on in this light. Iraq has harbored
terrorists for many years no matter how badly you would like to ignore it.

lets say you are right. im not conceding this point except for the purpose
of this discussion. lets say iraq has harbored terrorists. does that mean
its ok to kill some civilians over there? the ones we're trying to
'liberate'? the ones who, by definition, arent part of the terrorists or
the iraq we are trying to destroy?



people like frank arent going to answer the 'which is more evil'
question
because their 'truth' is too shameful for them to just come out and say
it.
but here it is laid bare. this is what frank and the others are saying
in
a
nutshell: the US is allowed to kill foreign as many foreign civilians
as
we
want, in the hopes that we may get a few al-qaida because the life of a
us
citizen is worth that much more than other people in the world.


I don't usually answer questions which have such an incredibly shaky
premise. But just for you randy...

I think beheading a civilian is the most evil. First of all, I am unaware
of any beating to death instances of prisoners. I guess we will see since
not all of the info has been made public yet. But who are these
prisoners?
Oh, I know, they are all falsly imprisoned, right? Only a mental midget
to
try and suggest that these prisoners are anyone but terrorists and
murderers
with American blood on their hands.

im not sure where this is going. im not comparing what the us soldier did
to the prisoners to anything. thats another issue.

I would suggest that dropping a bomb on
a crowded marketplace is a terrible thing. So I suppose we did this at
some
point to kill innocent civilians according to you?

if you're suggesting we havent 'accidentally' bombed innocent civilians in
iraq repeatedly over the last decade, this discussion is over.


Randy, seriously for one second just think about this. Who is to blame
when
civilians are hurt/maimed/killed in this case? The US who has given a
year's worth of warnings that we will make no distinction between
terrorists
and those who harbor them or the terrorists who hide behind civilians,
hide
in mosques, strap bombs to kids, etc? The truth is that civilian life
means
exactly nill to those people. Your life means even less.

man you bought the whole package didnt ya. if a terrorist was hiding behind
an american we would try and rescue them. if a terrorist is hiding behind
an iraqi citizen, one of those citizens we're 'saving' from the saddam
regime, well, sorry, thats just too bad for them isnt it. and if they get
mad and do something about it, oh now they're a terrorist too.

if we apply the same standards to the 'terrorists', they attacked an
economic target (the wtc) and a few civilians accidentally got killed.
whats the diffence? how can we take the moral high ground when we're doing
the exact same thing?



where might the world be today if instead of those nice sterile shots of
the
missile cams shown through the 90's, we saw the ones where people were
running, then exploding? what if the international media showed that in
a
form as raw as the video of the beheading? how many americans really
have
the stomach for that sort of thing?

I agree with you 100%. I also am of the opinion that there is no way we
could WWII today with the media that we have. I have not come to the
conclusion, however, that we shouldn't have been in WWII.

if you are comparing wwii to the iraqi situation in terms of 'should we be
there', i think you dont have much to work with.

but to bring it full circle, the simple truth is that in the mind of many
americans, the beheading of that one person will serve to justify the acts
of the us no matter how wrong we are. no matter how lopsided the numbers of
casualties are. in short, its just the propaganda the us needed.

randy