"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
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On 12/5/2012 1:25 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 12/4/2012 1:03 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
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On Dec 3, 10:46 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message

...





"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
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This guy purposely caused kickback on his table saw to prove a
point.

Make sure you watch what happens at 4:20 into the video.

He agrees with anyone who calls him an idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7sRrC2Jpp4

Excellent vid, valuable lesson.
He's not an idiot, he just didn't have the control over the
situation
as
he expected. **** happens, even with good intentions.

He proly would not have lost a digit or part thereof (as in a RAS),
but
he
certainly came close to requiring a lot of stitches, and poss. nerve
damage -- which can be almost as bad as losing a digit.

How does a riving knife work? Never saw one before this.

Apropos of this, the
SawStop:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoB...endscreen&NR=1

He claims sumpn like 3600 accidents a year, all severed digits? I
doubt
it.
Table saws, iiuc, don't nec'ly sever digits -- RAS's do. So I'm sure
plenty
of people get deep cuts on table saws, but not nec'ly severings.
He may have also been lumping RAS accidents with table saw
accidents --
assholes aren't nec'ly careful with stats.

But, this demo was ess'ly bogus. If the saw stop didn't work, he
would
have
gotten a bit of a nick (MAYBE), before his nervous system kicked
in --
ESP
the way his finger was glued to the table..... sheeit, I'da done that
WITHOUT a saw stop.... gimme a fukn break with that bull****.....

Now, let him put his system on a RAS, and test DAT with his finger,
cutting
in climb.... yeah, I'll hold effing breath....

Finally, the fuknCOST of this system.... holy ****.... God help the
home
woodworker if this thing ever becomes mandatory. Which could happen,
given
that they now make crawling helmets for
toddlers:http://www.amazon.com/Thudguard-Baby.../dp/B001OWCOTS
Even insufferable Manhattan Yupsters have a tough time swallowing
this
one.
Trader4 and Terrel would proly buy a crawling helmet, tho....
--
EA


Per the video you just supplied, the cost of the wrecked
blade and the SawStop module is $60. And it looks like
a device that could be sold for around that amount. So, I would
not buy a crawling helmet. But your cheap shots at
SawStop and me appear unwarranted. Or are you so
cheap and dumb that you think $60 for such a safety device
isn't worth it?
================================================== =====

Still more economic fabrication??

The replacement "crumple" thingy *alone* is $69, according to Amazon.
The *whole system* takes a $499 Crapsman table saw, and zooms it up to
pert near $2,000.

Plus, if you notice, those tests were conducted at a *very slow* entry
speed.
If Moi were feeding wood into a table saw at that speed with my finger
in
the blade path, I'll bet dollars to donuts I'd jerk dat finger back
way
before the blade even came near the bone, proly not much more than a
bandaid could handle.
But poss. a nasty cut too, but nowhere near losing a digit. Of
course,
much diff. story in a RAS.

Otoh, in the original video in this idiot/table saw thread, had HIS
hand
actually collided with the blade at that hand speed, I wonder how
effective this device would be. SOME damage control, proly, but how
much?
Mebbe not enough.
Well, let them demo this sawstop ditty while *whipping* a hot dog into
the
blade, see how the hot dog fares. Any such vids?? Not from the mfr,
I'll
bet.

If I'm wrong, I bet wrong then. We'll see.

And ahm all for safety, I just detect the looming of the inevitable
economic sodomy.
And, once again the "ante of complexity" just skyrockets in the name
of
"safety", again toward economic sodomy.
2012 cars are 50% heavier than cars in 1975 (a 2000# beetle then now
weighs 3000#), and pretty soon you'll need a certified dealer to fix a
flat for you.

I may have mis-spoke.
I just read somewhere that the sawstop adds "only" $100-200 to the
cost of
a saw.

That is the number that has and or was quoted 10 years ago in 10 years
ago
dollars. But on the other hand you need to understand the difference in
the cost of adding the feature to a saw and what the retail price will
be.
You are no going to buy a new saw for cost.



BUT, saws sold by sawstop push $2,000.... intrinsically much better
saws??
I doubt it, but it's poss.

You are really adding nothing of value, you are obviously not familiar
with this product which BTY is not new by any stretch of the
imagination.




I would like to see a $500 Crapsman table saw with and without the
sawstop,
see what the difference is.
In the meantime, I posted this non-destructive solution in another
reply:
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/arti...awstop-killer/
We'll see who wins.

So, who's buyin crawling helmets out there?? LOL


So have you heard of the the iPad, it is much newer than the SawStop.

Whatever you do, don't quit your day job -- heh, which proly doesn't pay
much, otherwise you proly wouldn't be such a snippy li'l prick.


You are dragging up assumptions that were made 10 years ago when the
technology was relative new. The SawStop has been in production for close
to a decade and your concerns have been addressed and proven to be a
non-problem.
Because this technology and brand is relative new to you does not mean it
is new.

And I am not being a snippy prick, you are simply uninformed.

True, it has taken a while to get the bigger picture on all this, but god
forbid any of you genii explain **** coherently.

I never said it doesn't work, altho it appears it works better than I
thought it would, but perhaps not as good as YOU think it does. This saw is
a potential headache that a lot of shops just doh't need.

The REAL issue, as I am finding out, is this Stephen Gass is one ****ing
slickster, finagling the *legislation* of his gadget, muddied statistics,
etc, rather than letting the market choose. Or as one observer put it,
letting the insurance industry choose.

Gass doesn't give a flying **** about anyone's safety. He's riding this
bull 'til the bull drops from exhaustion, so he can collect his payday,
which someone else here pointed out in an almost Solomon-esque way -- I
think it was dpb. **** Gass, **** his patents.

There are a cupla other things.
First, instead of idiot-proofing ****, why not educate the idiots?
Hell will freeze over before I lose a digit on my RAS, a FAR more dangerous
tool than a table saw.
HWFO first, bec I know how to use push/pull sticks, etc. Part of the near
miss in the original video in the original post in this thread was that as
nice as those push blocks are, they are too short. Make a variety, to suit
the job, teach people how to use them. And yeah, thick gloves can be a part
of that arsenal -- I use them all the time on the RAS, more for kickbacks of
sharp-ish alum.

Toward the end of education, the original vid in the OP is stellar along
those lines. More of THAT kind of education could be just as effective as a
sawstop, I'm betting -- ESP with a bypassed sawstop....

Next, the medical costs being used to bamboozle the gummint into mandating
this bull**** are grossly inflated.
Suppose there are 3,000 amputations, which I doubt.
Suppose the surgeon's fee (for a successful reattachment of all 3,000, which
is waaaay beyond realistic) is $10K...
That's $30 million, not the BILLIONS bandied about by entreepreeneerial
slicksters, and economic ignorami like Trader4.

And this would be $30 mil, TOPS..... proly closer to $10 mil, given that
few of these will require the full medical sophistication of a full
re-attachment.

MOST of a hospital's costs are FIXED (and I'm calling full-time workers
(nurses, techs, assistants, support staff, etc, cuz, well, during a year
these costs ARE fixed), and wouldn't change if NO ONE showed up to an ER
room AT ALL.
Yeah, a cupla extra dollars in reagents'n'****....

Iow, to simplify this for Trader4, the only REAL variable expense here is
the surgeon, who, pardon the very excellent pun/metaphor, works by
piecework..... Why, thank you, thank you, yes, it was good, I agree.....

Sorta like the ole tele companies, dunning people thousands of dollars for
questionable long-distance calls -- the phone company didn't incur any EXTRA
expense as a result of those calls, which made the dunning more of an
extortion -- esp. when the calls were of questionable origin.

So the economic stats of medical costs bandied about are largely bull****,
because most of those costs are there ANYWAY -- a concept way over Trader4's
head, but he's going to dispute it anyway....

So I'm not saying this **** doesn't work, or that it's not even a good
idea -- more for schools, imo, and in some production facilities, perhaps,
where the monotony of the job (and the frequency of the cuts) really could
use a statistical hedge, safety-wise -- but like others have said, the fact
that Gass is furiously trying to shove his gadget down our collective
throats is an effing outrage.

CA, from one cite, is apparently close to making this bull**** mandatory....
not sure about the details, but the issue there HAS oh-ficially arisen.
Someone suggested CA simply seceding from the Union, so the rest of us can
live in ****ing regulatory peace.....
--
EA