On Wed, 05 May 2004 00:24:27 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

That may be true for wiring _you_ do. It is not necessarily so for
DIY by "somebody else"

I agree. I took great pains to make that clear.

Getting past that to the possibility that *anything* could go wrong,
my house is more than 30 years old, I am the third owner, and the
second owner lived in it for more than 25 years. What documentation is
there going to be? Possibly the original permit, but what did the
previous two owners do and is it documented? The immediately previous
owner is deceased, so unavailable for testimony.

"who" done it is immaterial.

I don't believe that is correct. However, I am in no position to argue
the point. I'll wait for the time to come when it becomes necessary.

If things are not consistent with the original permit, and there were no other
subsequent permits issued -- and yes, the city _does_ keep all that stuff on
file, _in_perpetuity_, including the plans that had to be filed with the
permit -- then the 'current owner' *does* have a problem. EVEN IF the work
was done in a 'code compliant manner'.

"Plans" are very general in nature. There will be locations indicated
of receptacles and fixtures and there may be notations regarding the
service to be installed (60A, 100A, 200A, for example), but there
won't be anything about Square D vs FPE or ITE. There won't be details
on whether receptacles were wired by drops from the top plate or runs
through the studs. There may not even be details such as half switched
receptacles, or additional circuits beyond those required by code.

Those things are done by the electrician as he commonly does them.
Granted, some techniques are more cost effective for the contractor
than others, but they aren't specified on the plan. Moreover, if the
owner/builder asked the electrician to add a couple of receptacles
here or there, the plan on which the permit was based wouldn't be
modified.

When the inspector gets there, he checks what was done to see that it
complies with code, but he doesn't carry the plans around to check
that the receptacles/fixtures/circuits installed are the same as
those specified on the plan that accompanied the permit app.

Both are circa 40 years ago.

One electrical example in 40 years; might as well be never.

(What *do* you call my father's brother's wife's brother?)

Uncle, probably, although he's not a direct relative.

I will do my own work, when I can. In my current domicile, a condo, by law,
I *cannot*. All plumbing and electrical work _must_ be done under the
direction of a licensed/ bonded professional. Makes sense -- a screw-up
has the potential to affect the _other_ owners in the building.

As a former president of the condo I lived in, I generally agree,
although I did some work in my unit, too, while I was there.

HOWEVER, when I've done work on a single-family property, I've always pulled
a permit, and had the work inspected. It's a relatively petty-cash
expenditure -- and, that way, *everybody*knows* the work was done right.
I tend to engineer 'above and beyond' the minimum requirements, so inspection
is a breeze.

I would have made that petty-cash expenditure, but when I went to
apply for the permit in the case of the new load center I put in, I
was told this community doesn't permit it. Bah.

There *is* another issue regarding having 'unofficial' work done (or doing
it yourself). If/when, at some later date, it becomes necessary to have
some "official" work done, all sorts of 'organic waste impacts the rotary
impeller' -- when the prior, 'unofficial', work is discovered.

Right. I hire an electrician to add a circuit. He pulls a permit, runs
the circuit, and has it inspected. The inspector doesn't bring out the
old plans (nor did the electrician) and compare to see that nothing's
changed from the original.

Now, if someone did something really obvious, like the live wire
connected to nothing that I found in a wall I demolished, that might
get an inquiry started.

As I said before, I don't advocate this for everyone, or anyone, for
that matter. But I know my limitations and how to accept a reasonable
risk.

Thanks for your thoughts.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net