On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:39:39 -0700, mike wrote:

On 6/23/2012 5:17 PM, Winston wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:11:00 -0700, mike wrote:

On 6/23/2012 1:16 PM, Winston wrote:

(...)

I wonder where all that extra gas is going? :/

It's a combination of thermodynamics and placebo effect. I found my
energy usage went down for whatever I was measuring.

Did the power company agree with your measurements? Were they on
placebo as well?

Never asked them. But I did get the info directly from the IR output of
the smart meter and by timing the on-time of the water heater.

That's interesting! How did you do that, please?

Temperature affects two types of loss. System losses thru the pipes
and heater are proportional to temperature. Your clothes washer
probably works on weight, so there's proportional savings there.

We always use cold water for laundry. It works just fine.
Sometimes you don't get a choice. My dishwasher uses hot whether I like
it or not.

And most will make up the temperature loss by heating the water
in the enclosure electrically at double the cost per equivalent BTUh.

But when you shower, you turn the knob to the temperature you want and
use more of that lower-temperature hot water.

After I adjusted the water heater, it was equilibrated at 7 F lower
than before I adjusted the water heater.

For two *months* afterward, I used significantly less gas. At month
three, I was using slightly *more* gas than before adjusting the
thermostat.
Are you saying it took me three *months* to decide I needed to shower
longer?

I'm not trying to say anything about you.

My point is that if I compensated for 100% of the temperature loss
by using more hot water, I should not have seen the significant
savings I saw on my energy bill for February, March and April.

I'm saying, that for me, a direct real-time measurement over a much
shorter period gave me the results I stated. Don't have it set up now,
but at the time, I could tell you to the penny what a shower cost me.

That's one of the things about metrology. It costs less to take shorter
showers. You don't need ANY measurements to know that. And if your
shower is already as short as you can stand, measuring won't change
anything.

But lowering the thermostat will, if one's water heater is running
above optimum temperature. Or it should change, anyway.

Doesn't sound reasonable to me.
If that effect were in play, I should not have seen any savings in the
first couple months because I would have started using more hot water
immediately.

I am left with questions. But I'm *always* left with questions.

--Winston