On Jun 8, 6:19*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote :











"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 3:36 pm, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:10 pm, mike wrote:

We also have a time-of-use option. *You get to pay an additional
fee for the option to pay MORE for peak use and less for off-peak.
I don't have the glossy brochure handy, but last time I did the
math, my break-even point was switching 80% of my use to 4AM.

The time of use option solution is obvious. *Switch EVERYBODY to
time of
use.
Keep the peak rate the same and lower the off-peak rate.
You can raise ALL the rates later, when nobody's looking.
EVERYBODY has the incentive to smooth out the load peaks and
valleys. EVERYBODY wins...well, there'd be less in the bonus
bucket. And all those people marching down main street in
opposition to that wind farm
or transmission line could bring along their electric bill to
demonstrate that they're washing their clothes at 4AM
and cutting their total use below norm to eliminate
the need for that new energy source.

Reminds me of some 40 years ago, after the first Arab oil shock (the
Sheik Shock? When OPEC first flexed its muscles.)

All consumers/producers of energy were trying to be more efficient.
Electric companies were looking at a thing called "pumped storage."

During the wee hours, water would be pumped uphill. During the hot
afternoons, water would be let go downhill, spinning hydroelectric
turbines as it went.

Sounded like a treadmill to oblivion, but it effectively shifted
excess capacity from the middle of the night to when it was needed.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's still in use in some parts of Colorado.

I question the "-effectively- shifted" part of that statement;
how much water can be pumped? how much power does it take? how much power
is generated from the water pumped? How much "power" can be stored?

you have to raise water quite a height to get power from it.
the losses make it not cost-effective,I suspect.


Now that I am an Instant Google Expert: You have to compare pumped
storage to the other possible solutions: bigger base load power plants
which generate excess electricity all the time, or peaker plants which
take a while to put on line. Pumped storage plants can start producing
electricity within two minutes, and can operate at full power within
30 minutes, according to the wikipedia article about the Ludington, MI
pumped storage station, which pumps Lake Michigan water up to the top
of the dunes.

One comparative disadvantage of fossil-fueled peakers is that they
take a while to deliver power in phase.