Peter wrote:
On 11/10/2011 11:56 AM, HeyBub wrote:


You're assuming Judaism is a religion. It is, but it's more. It's a
race, a nationality, a homeland, and a way of life. It's really
better to call Judaism a "tribe," with all the cohesiveness and
diversity that implies.
I'll agree that it's a way of life, but many Jews I know are not
Zionists and feel only a humanist but not a religious connection to
the "homeland". It is a nationality only if you are a Zionist.

Heh! Wanna bet? All Jews today are Zionists. Admittedly, some ultra-orthodox
Jews have trouble with the secular state of Israel, but would they give it
up and voluntarily move back to Lituania? Not a chance.

As
far as I'm concerned, considering all Jews as belonging to the same
nation has not been valid since the destruction of the second temple.

Ah, but you don't get a vote.


From my perspective, Jews can only belong to the same race one denies
the validity of conversion and insists upon direct lineage without
intermarriage as a criterion for true racial identity. If so, you
would be in good company among members of the most orthodox branches,
and the Nazis (remember "racial purity"?) and their acolytes.

Huh? Even the most orthodox Jew honors conversions. Inheritance is only ONE
way to become Jewish. You do raise an interesting point, however. How would
the Nazis treat a full-blooded Aryan who converted to Judaism?

You
might have your own personal definition of "race", but the way it is
commonly used, most people, myself included, would be hard put to
define Asian, African, Caucasian and other people from virtually
every place on the globe as all belonging to the same race just
because they all self-define as Jews.

Your "common" definition, then, is wrong:

Race
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or
less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common
history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.


As we both would agree, get 10 Jews in a room discussing an issue and
you'll hear 15 opinions.

More likely, when two Jews get together, you get three opinions.