good choice, Wes. I'd humbly disagree that the Powermatic is the "Gold
Standard", though. Without listing specific issues, I looked at the
Uni, PM, and Jet side by side for about 2 hours at Woodcrafters one
rainy afternoon, and I picked the Uni. I don't think think you are
settling for second or third best. 'course there are plenty of folks
who'd love to argue the point, but I for one, am happy I chose the
Unisaw. Just don't confuse me with a Delta advocate, as I have had my
share of negative Delta experiences which we'll skip for now.
The only time I had problems with reaching Delta's tech support was
during a holiday week. (Quality of support is a different subject g)
My Uni top polished up quite nicely with some elbow grease. Out of the
box it was ground pretty coarse.
The PM was $600 more than the Unisaw when I priced them 2 years ago, if
you consider the mobile base with both. Definitely, it's pricey!
Here are some tips for you from Tony Collums that he was kind enough to
post for me:
Tony Collums wrote:
Dave,
Congrats,
Just a couple of assembly hints I give all my customers.
1) Assemble the mobile base first the take saw body off of skid and
place in
MB.
2) It may not say in the manual, but make sure that you put the
switch on
before assembling the rails to the saw. Taking them back off is real
frustrating and aggravating.
3) Since your going to be on a mobile base, don't follow the layout
pattern
for the legs. The manual assumes that your not going to have a
mobile base.
4) When attaching the cast iron wings to the saw, level the center
first
then the outer edges. Just make sure that nothing is higher than
the saw
table itself. If the wings are a little low, it will not hurt a
thing other
than your fence make a slight bumping sound when you move across
it. Use the
same on the extension table.
5) Make sure that you tighten the belts, they are not tensioned at the
plant. This is done to save unnecessary jarring on the bearings during
shipment.
6)When installing the blade for the first time, don't be surprised
if it's
not a little difficult. Delta machines the arbor and face flange
with the
carriage and bearings already installed for accuracy (no one else does
this). There can sometimes be a few burrs left. Take some 150 or
180 grit
sandpaper and wrap it around the arbor and turn the arbor, you will not
damage the arbor. What ever you do, do not try to force the blade
on. You
could create a bigger problem. Just be patient. Put your hat on
straight and
put a little hair around the hole. It will go on.
7) Count all of your fingers, plug it in, turn it on, have fun, recount
fingers, if the number is the same, you had a successful day. If
not, check
the floor, call the wife and go to the doctor. Make sure he puts on
a water
proof bandage so you can wash it off when your hands get dirty
while in the
shop next time.
Best of luck,
Tony Collums
dave
Wes Stewart wrote:
My quest for a new cabinet saw ended Thursday. It's not in my shop
yet but the order is placed. I want to thank all who knowingly and
unknowingly assisted me in making my decision. (SWMBO didn't think I
would ever decide)
I went with the Delta Unisaw, left-tilt with a 30" Biesemeyer fence,
purchased locally from Woodcraft on their "10% off day." My reasons
are many and I will expound on them below. Those that don't care can
stop reading here. [g]
The possible choices in order of decreasing price and theoretical
superiority:
1) General 650-T50. Widely considered to be the best saw with the
crappiest documentation and customer service. Dealers are essentially
non-existent. Only available with a 50" fence. Finely ground
tabletop. Lousy dust collection. Top fully assembled when delivered.
Built in North America. Reported to have "massive" trunnions. (Ever
notice that "massive" always precedes trunnion when table saws are
mentioned. Sort of like "Powerful" House Ways and Means Committee.)
An email to Wilke Machine asking whether a 30" fence was an option was
answered almost two weeks later. They offered to "modify" to 30".
Cost was $1,850 plus $200 shipping charge! An email to an alleged
dealer in Arizona was never answered.
Info sources. FWW No. 136, June 1999; Wood Magazine Oct 2003, private
email-Wilke.
2) Powermatic PM-66. Relatively pricey. Many issues with quality of
cut, miter gauge slot badly machined and general fit and finish
issues. Finely ground tabletop. Table inserts are junk. Lousy dust
collection. Can be had with 30" fence although without a right side
cast iron extension. Right side laminate table is trouble. "Massive"
trunnions. Built in USA. Available locally (Tucson) from Woodworkers'
Source.
Info sources. FWW No. 136, June 1999; Wood Magazine Oct, 2003, private
email-Jack Loganbill-see:
http://thewoodshop.20m.com/g1023s.htm
http://woodmagazine.com/wood/dgroups...&thread=553942
3) Delta Unisaw. The original American standard. Company is a nomad
moving from owner to owner. Made in USA although some production
moved? or moving? offshore. Can be had with 30" fence although without
a right side cast iron extension. Right side laminate table is
problematic. Cast iron extension can be purchased separately. Many
issues with tabletop flatness. Top not as finely ground as other saw
in class. Excellent dust collection and quality of cut. Blade guard
sucks. Available with a "real" Biesemeyer fence. Tech support hard to
reach. I got one question answered after six transfers and 10 minutes
of wait. Gave up on another call. Available locally.
Info sources. FWW No. 136, June 1999; Wood Magazine Oct, 2003.
http://woodmagazine.com/wood/dgroups...&thread=553853
4) Jet. Considered to be the best of the imports. Excellent fit and
finish. Nicely ground top although main table has a thick bevel on
front edge and iron wings have none. Not well advertised but can be
had with 30" Biesemeyer clone fence and two iron table extensions.
Some quality of cut issues. Poorly written manual. Available locally
from two dealers at competitive prices with home delivery. A strong
contender.
Info sources. FWW No. 136, June 1999; Wood Magazine Oct, 2003. Dealer
visits.
5) Grizzly. The mystery saw. The mystery is whether you will get a
good one in one piece or not. Comes with a 30" fence and two iron
extensions. Some owners love them and some wish they'd never seen one.
A lot of saw for the money and often no more tweaking to get running
than saws costing twice as much. Some quality of cut issues. Some
fence issues although this is (supposed to be) being addressed. (How
do you know?) Motor failures. Delivery is problematic. Lots of
damaged saws are reported.
Info sources. FWW No. 136, June 1999; Wood Magazine Oct, 2003, private
email-Jack Loganbill-see:
http://thewoodshop.20m.com/g1023s.htm
http://woodmagazine.com/wood/dgroups...&thread=552982
I mentioned what and where I bought, here's the why.
I really wanted a short fence. The trend is to 50-52" fences with
huge tables. I could park one of these in my garage/shop but actually
using it would be a problem. I spoke to a Delta rep at Woodcraft and
asked about this trend and why they didn't do an "X" saw package for
the short saw. He replied that he has a short one too but today
woodworkers want big tables, now with routers installed and he
expected that they will soon offer table-mounted TV sets too.
The short fence requirement and their dealer problem eliminated
General.
Powermatic is the "gold" standard, but it seems more so with people
that don't actually own one. When I visited a local dealer and
indicated that I could afford one if there were compelling reasons, he
showed me a Jet. Too much money for no obvious superiority.
I shopped for a Jet at Tool Crib (aka Amazon). I've bought a lot of
stuff from them, but the guy I spoke to couldn't have been less
knowledgeable or helpful. As far as he knew Jet offers 52" fence
versions only. Not so.
Woodworker's Source was *very* helpful. They showed me their Jet
setup in the shop and offered to "build" whatever Jet system I wanted.
They had competitive pricing, actually had the machines in stock and
offered free delivery to my shop plus I have a $100 coupon burning a
hole in my pocket. It was tough to not buy here, especially with the
promise of local follow-on support.
Grizzly was just too iffy. This is a once-in-a-lifetime purchase that
I didn't want to regret. A few hundred dollars more are lost in the
noise after a few years.
This left Delta. There are a lot of detractors, however, the saw is a
proven design with parts and service widely available. It reportedly
has a quality of cut second only to General; the industry standard
Biesemeyer fence and excellent dust collection.
I shopped Woodworker's Supply for this saw, since their catalog
actually shows the "build your own saw" option and I've successfully
done business with them in the past. When I couldn't find some prices
on their web site for accessory packages, I called on the telephone.
The sales guy couldn't find package prices either and quoted me the
individual piece prices. When I said that that didn't seem like a
package deal to me he got testy and more or less hung up without
trying to close a deal. I emailed some folks there with the info that
they had web site problems and Woodcraft's 10% off sale and their
sales guy's attitude made it difficult to consider shopping with them.
I got a response that they would beat any local dealer's price if I
would call back. I emailed again and asked for a written quote and
shipping methods and costs and got back a list of catalog prices with
another request that I call back. I know why they didn't want to put
it in writing but I was the customer and I had other options.
Back to Woodcraft. Earlier in the week they offered the sale price
without waiting for sale day. Since I wanted some other stuff I
waited until Thursday. SWMBO went next door to clothes shop. I had
my aforementioned conversation with the Delta rep and finalized my
decision to buy a 36-831LA. Sales tax of 5.6% will offset much of the
discount, but for the money I get eyeball-to-eyeball service and a
one-year "if I'm not happy bring it back guarantee." Plus they'll
deliver it to my house for $15 for "gas money." At the current price
of gasoline that's not much more than it would cost to drive my
454-powered Chevy 4X4 into town. [g]
SWMBO returned just as I was paying up. She asked whether I had also
bought that dovetail doodad I'd been thinking about (Leigh D4). I
said, "No". She said, "Why not?" I said, "Add a D4 to the list."