DIYbanter - View Single Post

mike

wrote:
On Jul 7, 2:09 pm, mike wrote:
I just went thru this exercise.
I found a new generator for dirt cheap at a garage sale.
I found another great deal on a DIY transfer switch that
hooks between the outputs of the breaker box and the house wiring.
I wish I'd been able to do the math before making the impulse purchase.

I discovered a couple of interesting things.
The NEC is subject to considerable interpretation.
There are at least two people you need to worry about.
1) the local electrical inspector.
2) the adjuster for your fire insurance carrier.
If you bypass #1, then #2 has grounds to deny your claim
when the place burns down. God help you if sparks
burn down the neighbor's house.

Life is a lot easier if you assume that the place will never
burn down. I've only been burned out twice in 63 years...what are
the odds????

The code pretty clearly states that anything ATTACHED to the structure
has to be permanently wired.
I asked my local inspector if I could put a plug on the furnace so I
could run the fans during a power outage. He said, "I don't see why not."
When pressed, he vacillated. I think he's the only one in the office,
so probably not an issue. In bigger offices, it may be a crap shoot
depending on who shows up for the inspection.
In your case, you could make a case for the built-in fridge not being
attached in the sense anticipated by the code, but the socket in the
wall is CLEARLY attached. Putting a plug on the other end of the wire
might be an issue.
You'll find many "projects" on the web that put regular wall switches
in circuits to facilitate generator connections. As I recall, you
must have switches actually rated for such service. Regular wall
switches ain't! I was gonna put a combo switch/socket
and back-feed just the furnace. I never found a combo SPDT switch
rated at the 20-amps required by that circuit. Would never have
passed inspection anyway.

When I had central air installed, I was amazed by the inspector.
He didn't look at the wiring at all. All he cared about was that
the breakers and switches all had the right stickers on 'em.
He failed the system and made the contractor replace a breaker
with one with the right sticker. So, it don't matter whether
the switches can actually do the job. What matters is that they
have a sticker that says they can do the job.

The point to having the right "sticker" is that it means it's
the right one and can do the job, no?
WEll...yes, and I don't argue with that. My concern was that he didn't
look at ANY of the wiring to see if it was the correct size or routed
and secured properly. Stickers on the breakers was the only thing
he seemed to care about.

When I contemplated the transfer switch, I discovered that my house
has 30 feet of wire between the meter base and the first breaker.
This violates current code, big-time. There's some question about
what changes inside the breaker box might require bringing the whole
service entrance up to current code.

Curious as to what part of the NEC this violates?

Good point. Maybe it's a local thing.
A friend just upgraded his service. They wouldn't let him put
the first breaker more than one stud-spacing away from the service
entrance. Seems they're worried about some contractor driving a
nail thru the cable. The first current limit is on the other side
of the transformer on the pole at 8KV or some such.
Something about arc-fault. If you get an arc started, it just
keeps burning itself back until it reaches a place where the separation
is great enough to extinguish the plasma. The house is well up in flames
long before that happens and there's nothing you can do but watch
it happen...assuming you weren't blinded in the initial flash.

While I think
most panels are located closer than 30 ft from the meter,
I would think there
would also be plenty of situations where it was not practical
and they were not.

The key is "were"...my house is 40 years old when they didn't
regulate that. So, yes, "most" houses are older than that and weren't
affected.

I think I could fix mine by installing a combo transfer-swtich
and meter base/breaker at the service entrance. Then the existing
wire to the main breaker box would be ok. Still WAY too much hassle
and not exactly a DIY thing== $$$$$

Cases like a seperate meter for an upstairs
apartment that has it's own panel located there for example.
I also don't see what exactly the big safety issue would be
having it be 30 ft as opposed to say 10 ft, as long as the wiring
was done correctly.

Even if everything turned out best case, the cost of the permits/inspection
was about the same as the cost of the generator.

Did you see the post in this thread about using one of the
add-on interlock systems?

As I understand it, the interlock system are not allowed by the code,
but are often "passed". Problem with my box is that the breakers
flip the opposite direction from the breakers anticipated by the
interlock systems. I'd have to have fingers that reach around
the switches and lock out on the outside edge. Other problem is
that there's no room in the box for the extra breakers for the
generator inputs.
It's just much easier/safer to leave it alone.

Power doesn't go out much here.
And I have an unused freezer in the garage that could be pressed
into service in a food emergency.

If you have room, pick up a free fridge at a garage sale
and use it for emergencies on the generator...and for beer
when it's not an emergency.

That's a point I always come back to. Here in NJ the power
just doesn't go out that much or for long enough to make
it worthwhile to worry about. In about 35 years, I only had
one outage that was close to ruining frozen food. And
that time the power came back on just as I was returning
with $25 worth of dry ice.

Anybody wanna buy a new 5KW generator and an 8-circuit self-installable
transfer switch?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -