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"Robert Green" wrote:

Slightly off-topic, I was watching leftist PBS last night at two
programs,
one about the Parthenon, the other about sunken Roman ships. The second
program turned out to be a lot more about the Roman Empire itself, and
how
they made engineering a facet of every part of their lives. What's also
fascinating is how much the US resembles Rome, in both positive and
negative
ways.

snip

The Romans pioneered things we use in the home almost every day. They
showed how, on the island of Ventotene*, where Augustus exiled his slut
daughter**, how they built a water collection system using hydraulic
cement,
decantation pools and tunnels sloped precisely to cause water to flow
fast
enough not to stagnate but slowly enough not to just spill out on the
other
end. The system still produces 250K gallons of water per year.

I don't think so. What then was the use of the tanker that was shown
and stated to currently bring in the entire island's water supply?
Further, the program showed the narrator (or whatever he was; I missed
the first few minutes) walking through the underground passages.

I assume they've shut it or shunted it for health, maintenance, film-making
or tourism regions. Nothing I saw looked broken - tiled catchfield,
cisterns, pipe runs - so simple a kid could maintain it. Hard to destroy
short of high explosives or earthquake. The Romans, as some of their mad
emperors strongly suggest, used liberal amounts of lead in the plumbing
(hence the periodic table's Pb for lead g). That could be a could reason
I should have used "should still be capable" rather than producing. It did
seem awfully wet to me, as if it's closed for maintenance or even the making
of a PBS special. Granted, they did show the tanker, but 250K gallons
couldn't support the more recent development I saw on the island. I suspect
is was mostly for Julia and some island keepers. But I can't recall whether
they said "all" or "most" of the island's water came from it and it's not
something I feel important enough to check on Maybe they just irrigate with
it, hoping the lead won't affect the plants. But I distinctly remember the
sounds of water sloshing as they walked around in the cistern.

How many of
our systems will be working 2,000 years from now?

In this area I don't see why not. The system relies on natural
substances (concrete) and gravity. So do most of our water supply
systems.

Is that why the water supply in Old Town Alexandria fails during an extended
power failure? (Yes, I know you said "most.") I suspect that more and more
of our water supplies are become reliant on pumps than they perhaps should
be because there's more and more stuff appearing in reservoirs that needs to
be removed before delivery. But I should have been more specific, once
again. How many of our critical infrastructure systems will be functioning
2,000 years from now? My mistake. It's been a long time since my writing's
been edited. Don't worry. I don't mind. I've been red-penciled for a
long, long time.

They put the catch field
on the highest part of the island and built cross-shaped cisterns to hold
the water after the debris was decanted.

Then, as today, the Romans controlled alcohol licensing, and only Roman
merchants could make and sell wine in the provincial areas. I guess
their
version of the ATF would be the WGS (Wine, garum and spears!)

Hmm, then as today the country (most countries) controls production
and export of a particular commodity as a means of indirect subsidy
and tariff. Our country brings in moral/religious questions.

They all do. The French even go to the silly lengths of demanding cultural
language purity and have bitch fights over product names that don't confirm.
Surely you remember the "American Fry" flap? That will all vanish when we
dissolve into a one world cultural goo - and that's coming so fast half the
freight train has already passed over us - and there's another one coming
right behind it.

Fascinating stuff, and completely apolitical. (0: "Nova" has always, in
my
mind, been the flagship of the PBS network and still teach me stuff at
this
old age.

Nova as most of the non-fiction programs on PBS still brings in an
unnecessary element of suspense. Here it was something to do with five
days (maybe the narrator turned into a pumpkin?). There's also an
element of false risk as here they talked about (and showed) a
dangerous dive where there was no one to help the diver if he got into
trouble. How about the cameraman, guys? This is not supposed to be
fiction.

Jeez, Knuckle, have you ever *produced* a weekly anything? Once in my life
I edited the campus weekly. You run out of new ideas around week 10 if
you're VERY lucky. These guys have been on how long? Decades? Quarter
centuries? That they can still find *anything* that would keep people
watching is a miracle to the nth power. I learned something new and even
went to the 'net to learn more. That's a successful program. Excessive
showmanship? They're probably guilty as charged. Do I care? Considering
what else was on at the hour I'd be lying if I said I cared. "Minute to Win
It?" Oy!

At the end talking about Julia you said:

** She turned out not to be a slut, but a political conspirator
against her father.

My comment:

I obviously saw the program but I thought they said that the idea of a
political conspiracy was just the musings of some historian and had no
solid evidence.

Yes, I think that was what we call a "dramatic hook" to keep the wives of
the guys that actually found this program interesting from changing the
channel. Accusing a woman of being a slut and then having her exonerated as
a bold political conspirator - is that not a "chick" story line? I can
imagine at least three layers of useless PBS upper management demanding such
a "hook" for the sake of political correctness. If I cared much about the
real Julia, I would have looked her up. My knowledge of Roman history is
cinematic, from the wonder spectacle movies of the 50's (Ben Hur, The Robe,
The Chalice, Spartacus) so it's clearly deficient in many ways.

There was another hint that sealing her up for slutty behavior was probably
not the reason for her exile since the island was routinely visiting by
ships full of what I assume to be always horny sailors.

Personally, I'd be surprised if it were a conspiracy
because based on the reaction of other emperors later on, Augustus
would have had her killed, not just exiled.

Some people are fonder of their offspring than others, I guess. Even the
homicidal ones. All that lead in the water clearly made some of them foam at
the mouth with paranoid delusions. But as Woody Allen said, just because
you're paranoid DOESN'T mean they're not out to get you.

Further the upper echelons
of this sort of academic pursuit tend to be increasingly filled with
bolshie feminists who'll go to any lengths to show that the female is
not just a warm hole.

What, you want them building the bridges you ride over every day? But
seriously, your misogyny might offend the no more than 10 women I've seen
post here regularly in the last year. I don't care *who* argues with whom
about dead Romans or even whether chipmunks are higher on the evolutionary
scale than suicide bombers. I do care about sensitive professions
(sensitive meaning "can they kill me trying to help me?") being licensed and
regulated because I know human nature. Your comment almost requires asking:
"So what woman passed YOU over for promotion?" (-"

--
Bobby G.