Gunner Asch on Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:18:41 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:25:27 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once." Robert A. Heinlein

I disagree - if there were _TRUE_ Freedom, nobody would have any excuse
to make war - every transaction would be for the mutual benefit of the
individuals involved. People don't make wars - governments and religions
do.

Tell that to the guys that want your land, your old lady and your
chickens. And those of your neighbor, and the other neighbor and the
neighbor down the road.

You libertarians all assume that Freedom means that everyone thinks
alike, there are no power hungry *******s and no pyschos with good
personal skills who can talk others into their game plan.

You wont do so well with your libertarian princibles ..hooked to the
front of a plow.

I stopped taking the Libertarians seriously in 2001 after some of
the Libertarians on an email list I was on, decided they had to go and
do the "moral"thing, and become human shields to protect Palestinians
from the Israeli government. I asked then, were they serious, why
were they not offering to act as human shields to protect the Israeli
civilians threatened by suicide bombers on the busses? Dead silence.

It is nice to believe that all you have to do is have True Freedom
to avoid war. But ignoring the fact that Original Sin seems to be the
only doctrine which has empirical support, does not make those
inclined to physical violence "go away". Having the freedom to do
what ever you want with no one to stop you, also means that there is
no one to stop some one else from doing what ever they want to do to
you.

fnord.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!