On Dec 17, 9:59*am, wrote:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:43:48 -0500, Home Guy wrote:
Home Guy wrote:

I intend to call Goodman's Consumer Affairs tommorrow
(1-877-254-4729) and ask them for exact clarification as to
whether or not they are aware of internet sales of their HVAC
products, if they have an explanation as to how those products
end up in the internet retail market, and how they know for
sure that a part returned to them or replaced by them belongs
to a furnace that *wasn't* purchased via internet retailer.

So I called Goodman and I asked how the warranty works when I buy a
furnace from an on-line retailer, and they said they don't honor the
warrany in those cases - I think it's because they don't want to deal
directly with the public - they'd rather deal with dealers when it comes
to parts replacement. *

* * * * Gee, I wonder why ? *Maybe, as has been said here so many
times for so many years, the quality and correctness of the
installation is the primary determinant of the lifespan and
performance of the equipment ? *Far above and beyond any
considerations of brand, features, etc ?

* * * * A correctly sized and installed ( pick any brand you think
sucks ) will far out-perform and out-last an incorrectly sized and
poorly installed ( pick any brand you think is great ), that's a fact.

They acknowledged that unless I tell them I bought it from an internet
retailer that they have no way of knowing,

* * * * Most brands do, probably including Goodman. *They know, by
serial number, what units were sold to what dealers or supply houses,
on what date, etc.

and that if I have warranty
repairs done by a local contractor that most likely the contractor will
have no problems dealing with Goodman as far as the parts go so it won't
be a big deal anyways. *Even if I installed the furnace myself and a
part went bad and I took the part into a local HVAC dealer, I could
probably still have the part covered by the warranty and get a
replacement from the dealer (assuming the part is still covered under
the warranty period).

* * * * Bull****. *No, you can not.

I asked why they sell their furnaces to electronic / internet retailers
in the first place, and they said they have no control over how those
furnaces are re-sold, and it might even be "illegal" to refuse to do
business with those retailers (restraint-of-trade laws).

* * * * Might be.

Bottom line is that I don't see how it can be legal for a manufacturer
to void a warranty on a product based on who sold you the product or how


Maybe HomeGuy should take this up with the courts. I doubt he will
have any success.
It's not at all unusual for manufacturer's to require that the product
be purchased and installed from an authorized dealer for the warranty
to be honored.

I also seriously doubt that there are any restraint in trade issues
with a company
choosing to not do business with internet companies that can't install
the eqpt
and instead just sell it to anyone, anywhere For one thing, they
would not be saying you can't sell
it on the internet. Only that if you do so, you have to be
responsible for the whole
sale, including installation. That's a simple issue of protecting the
company's
image, reliability, insuring customer satisfaction, etc. Take a
company like Harley.
Does anyone think a case could be made that they are restricting trade
because
they don't allow just anyone to be a dealer? Or that they can legally
deny someone the right
to just sell the MC on the internet and ship it in a box?

In reality, some of these companies are probably selling the stuff to
these online
outlets because they are as greedy as the next company, and looking to
increase
sales. Some of it also could be getting to online shops via
intermediaries, ie other
wholesalers who are looking to move more product.

Regarding getting the warranty honored anyway, I would not be
surprised if it were
honored, IF you met all the requirements. I noticed at least on
company, Rheem or
Trane, maybe both, require the product to be REGISTERED within a
couple months
of install for the entire warranty to be honored. I'm sure as part of
that process, they
damn well ask for who supplied it and installed it. Maybe you could
fudge and get
by that, don't know.

The thing that gets me in all this is that I wouldn't mind paying a
reasonable price to
get a system installed. But what I'm seeing here in NJ, is that for
a 100K BTU furnace
and 5 ton AC, the lowest quote I have allows for $4000 installation
above what I can
buy the eqpt for. I factored in everything I could think of, eg,
eqpt, lines, disconnect, whip,
410A, chimney liner, and it still comes out that they are getting
$4000 to install it.
I figure it should take 2 guys 1 day. If they charged $100/hr, that's
$1600. If it takes
2 full days, that's still only $3200. Actually, in this economy I'm
shocked that it can
be this high.