On Dec 5, 1:50*pm, ransley wrote:
On Dec 5, 11:08*am, wrote:





On Dec 5, 10:40*am, ransley wrote:

On Dec 3, 1:46*pm, wrote:

I've decided to take my own advice and look in to getting a new
natural gas furnace and AC unit installed before the $1500 tax credit
runs out at the end of the year. *Not much time left, I know. * To get
the credit, it has to be at least 13 EER, and 16 SEER. * *My old
system is a 26 year old RUUD and I figure between the tax credit and
higher efficiency saving energy costs, it's time to do it.

Anyone have any recommendations as to brands/models that they have had
good results with or those to avoid? *Any particular features? * I'm
thinking it's going to be worth it to get a high enough efficiency
system to meet the $1500 tax credit, but probably don't need anything
more than that. *Any features you've found useful on newer systems and
would recommend? * *Things like variable speed blowers, dual stage,
etc? * But honestly, the current one is fine in terms of comfort,
can't complain about drafts, etc. * The house is 3200 sq ft, current
furnace is 150K BTU input, 4.5 ton AC. *Location is coastal NJ, with
high gas and electricity rates.

I know what one guy here will say, ie just keep running the old
one.....

I didnt know furnaces ran windows. Consumer Reports mag did a poll of
about 22000 people years ago, the top results were suprising, you do
have CR mag online, right.

I checked there already. *They said the problem reports were about the
same
for all the manufacturers and didn't rate one better than the other.
They gave
some average price of a furnace information for the manufacturers.
But I'm
not sure what that even means. * Does it mean that the price for a
similar
furnace from each company? * Or does it mean that it's the average
price of
the systems each company sells? * If it's the latter, it's useless,
because
company A could offer more high-end systems and have a higher average
price, while actually being cheaper on the particular system type I
want.

*Thanks again for the help in the past on that CR stuff. *I finally
got a subscription.

If I was looking for one it would be
stainless steel heat exchanger not treated steel. If you over heat
them ive heard they fail fast. Checking the temp just above the
exchanger is something you should have set up and do. If it gets humid
inside when temps are mild, to mild for normal AC, a Vsdc blower will
do alot by running real slow and cycling the Ac only for humidity
removal, if its set up right. Vsdc should also save you 15-30% *on
electric usage overall. The first generation untis failed within 6-10
years, ive heard but they redisigned the electronics so maybe they
last now, you still need the longest warranty if you go with the fancy
stuff. 10yrs is common and maybe 15yr warrantys are done now. 2 stage
or modulating gas valves allow more even heat. With a high efficiency
condensing unit you automaticly cut the size of overall btus needed by
10 to maybe even 15%. If you dont run it 24 hrs a day on the coldest
days you might cut its size more. But if you do the setback or
vacation alot recovery is harder.

I was thinking about that. *With the current furnace, with an outside
temp of'
about 28F, it raises the temp from 60 to 70 at about 5F per hour.
Current
26 year old furnace is 150K input. *So, I'm thinking with 93% or so
efficiency
new one, 100K should be about the same. * It's not close to running
constantly
on the coldest days here in coastal NJ, which would be about 8F. *But
any smaller and it cuts
back the ability to set it back at night. * Right now it's set to go
to 60 at 11PM,
back to 67 at 5:30AM

I also take *maybe 7 trips in the winter where I set it back to 50 and
from the above,
you can tell it takes several hours to get back to a reasonable
temperature.
*I've though about getting an thermostat that I could control via the
internet
*to set it back up when I'm on the way back.

Would you think it a good idea to go with a smaller one if it means
less ability
to set it back, even on a daily basis?

As far as the VSDC, etc., I'm going to see what the contractors have
in the systems
that meet the credit reqts as well as those just below it. *I'm
thinking I'll probably wind
up essentially getting a better furnace for free when you factor in
the credit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The CR survey was notable because it stated Goodman to be less
reliable, but I guess you are not looking at Goodman.

Your 150k furnace is likely 82% and 123,000 output, a 100k 94% unit is
94,000 output so its alot less, near 30%.

I was thinking the current 26 year old furnace is more like 60 or 65%%
efficient. Don't
you think 82% is way high? I'd expect that from a more modern
furnace, eg
the current low cost entry level systems, but not from my ancient
beast. If it's 65%,
then replacing it with a 100K, 93% one is pretty close.


I wonder does it even run in
6 hrs at night on 6f cutback?

I set it back to 60 at 11PM and it definitely will run overnight if
it's cold weather, probably
from the low 20s on down.



a load calculation is really needed to
know what is needed, or just dont go to much smaller.

The first contractor, Carrier guy is coming tomorrow and I think he's
going to do one. But it
would seem to me that the actual experience I have with the current
one is just as useful,
maybe more so. At least for the heating part.




The only real
need I can see for 2 stage or modulating gas valves is if you have
uneven heat and need more comfort. Just cutting my furnace size 50%
gave me more even heat but I was way oversized. Ecm-Vsdc would help
more in winter if heat is uneven but it really makes sense for AC if
alot of your climate is near 70 but humid or you need to boost AC.
With 7 trips a winter and setbacks you will be colder longer if its
alot smaller. I think the main benefit is a cheaper unit, but you
didnt say heat was uneven or bad. if your fine now maybe Condensing
and no fancy stuff is best. a bit smaller and heat will be more even.- Hide quoted text -


That's about where I'm headed. The only issue I have now is that it
would be
good to have more cooling upstairs. Main issue there is the limited
duct work
originally installed. One thing I want to look into is more blower
capacity to
help with that. But I think the best solution would be a second AC
system for
upstairs. I don't think it's enough of an issue though to warrant
doing that.

So, I'm thinking get more airflow if possible, and a system that's
sufficient in rating
to meet the tax credit.