On Dec 5, 11:08*am, Home Guy wrote:
ransley wrote:
I didnt know furnaces ran windows.

Don't joke. *Next year they'll be running linux or android.

Consumer Reports mag did a poll of about 22000 people years ago
the top results were suprising

So post them here.

If I was looking for one it would be stainless steel heat exchanger
not treated steel.

Yes. *Stainless for both the primary and secondary exchangers. *Take a
magnet with you to the hvac dealer's show room and test the units they
have on display.

Vsdc should also save you 15-30% *on electric usage overall.
The first generation untis failed within 6-10 years, ive heard
but they redisigned the electronics so maybe they last now

Correct term for vsdc motors is ECM. *ECM motors are a crock of ****.
Best you'll save is 100 watts compared to 1/4 hp AC motor, and less if
you have 2-speed AC motor. *Saving 100 watts at 10 cents/kwh is about
$100 (that's 100 watts continuously for an entire year). *Now subtract
the electricity used by the furnace motherboard, and various other
blowers and condensate pump. *The extra 100 watts used by AC motors are
dumped into the house as heat - which is what you need in the winter
(and spring and fall depending where you live) so it's not all wasted
energy.

Lifespan of ECM motor is 1/2 to 1/4 that of AC motor, and it's 4 to 8
times more expensive (upfront cost of furnace is higher, repair costs
higher). *ECM motors create EM/RFI on your household wiring, can
interfere with tv and radio reception.

Now tell me how you're saving with an ECM motor.

So where are we?

1) Adding second stage heat exchanger to conventional (70 - 80%)
furnaces from 30 years ago gives us condensing furnace (95% give or
take) - which is good. *I do like that improvement.

2) Using cheap steel for heat exchangers compared to furnaces from 30
years ago is bad. *Using stainless is good.

3) Using electronic ignition is bad comprimize from cost/savings point
of view compared to standing pilot light. *No real need to use
electronic ignition in modern condensing furnace.

4) Using ECM motors is also bad comprimize compared to 1/4 or 1/3 hp AC
squirrel cage motor. **Actual* or *Net* energy savings don't justify
extra cost and reduced longevity.

As a consumer, give me the choice of electronic ignition or conventional
pilot. *Give me the choice of ECM vs standard AC motor. *Give me the
choice of mechanical thermostat (in the furnace) to control gas valve
and fan motor instead of electronic motherboard. *Give me all stainless
for the exchangers. *If you don't give me ALL those choices, then I say
that modern furnaces and the entire industry is a crock of ****.

Beyond the furnace itself, it's time to start ducting winter heat around
the AC coils instead of going through them. *You want efficiency? *It's
not efficient to blow air through coils when you don't need to do it
during the winter.

It's also time to allow for spring/fall cooling by having ducting and
gating that allows the furnace to pull return air from the outside,
force it into the house, and gate the interior return air back to the
outside. *When ever you want the house cooler, and the outside air is
cooler than the inside air, then why use your AC when you can draw
outside air into the house directly?

I dont know how to cut and paste yet but its 2008 CR magazine furnace
survey

Ecm Vsdc, it can run at 100watts vs 375 for my 1/4hp, thats near 70%
saving in slow mode, maybe near 100w less at high speed.

Who in the US pays only 0.10c per Kwh, you must live near a big Dam
and get subsidised electric because im .18 and so is the rest of the
US, many place are near 0.25 kwh.

You miss the point, its comfort or else you wouldnt even have a
heating system. Vsdc can remove in low speed maybe 50% more moisture
with minimal cooling so its great in humid areas, great for homes with
uneven heat. It is about comfort, but can save the cost of the motor
in electric usage over 6-7 years. That was my figure years ago at .
125kwh.

You have to know yearly hours run in heat and AC and a real Kwh cost
to make any claim to it not paying back.

Lifespan, are you refering to the old or new redesign motor.

Electronic ignitions failing, so do thermocuples.