"Home Guy" wrote in message ...
ransley wrote:
I didnt know furnaces ran windows.
Don't joke. Next year they'll be running linux or android.
The new high end systems are serial control with variable frequency inverter
drives that will vary their output from 40% - 115% of their rated capacity.
Consumer Reports mag did a poll of about 22000 people years ago
the top results were suprising
So post them here.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/a...-205/overview/
If I was looking for one it would be stainless steel heat exchanger
not treated steel.
Look for tubular primary heat exchanger, not "clam shell".
Yes. Stainless for both the primary and secondary exchangers. Take a
magnet with you to the hvac dealer's show room and test the units they
have on display.
If the furnace is correctly sized, properly installed and adjusted,
aluminized steel or stainless.... either will give you a good service life.
Vsdc should also save you 15-30% on electric usage overall.
The first generation untis failed within 6-10 years, ive heard
but they redisigned the electronics so maybe they last now
90% of those failures were due to incorrectly designed and sized ductwork
that caused extreme static pressures.
Correct term for vsdc motors is ECM. ECM motors are a crock of ****.
Best you'll save is 100 watts compared to 1/4 hp AC motor, and less if
you have 2-speed AC motor. Saving 100 watts at 10 cents/kwh is about
$100 (that's 100 watts continuously for an entire year). Now subtract
the electricity used by the furnace motherboard, and various other
blowers and condensate pump. The extra 100 watts used by AC motors are
dumped into the house as heat - which is what you need in the winter
(and spring and fall depending where you live) so it's not all wasted
energy.
you need to do some more homework here.
Lifespan of ECM motor is 1/2 to 1/4 that of AC motor, and it's 4 to 8
times more expensive (upfront cost of furnace is higher, repair costs
higher). ECM motors create EM/RFI on your household wiring, can
interfere with tv and radio reception.
ECM motors have the same or greater lifespan, use half the energy to run and
are a whole lot quieter than PSC motors. Only the cheapest manufactures with
the cheapest models of furnaces have issues with RFI. yes you will get what
you pay for.
Now tell me how you're saving with an ECM motor.
The average system that I install uses 30% - 40% less energy to run.
So where are we?
Talking about how you need to go back to school, and get up to speed with
the new systems.
1) Adding second stage heat exchanger to conventional (70 - 80%)
furnaces from 30 years ago gives us condensing furnace (95% give or
take) - which is good. I do like that improvement.
90+ furnaces VS 80+ furnaces will largely depend on location, climate, and
degree days. Here in south Mississippi, the additional cost of a 90+ furnace
is not justified, where in the northern states where they have 9 months of
winter sports is a different story.
2) Using cheap steel for heat exchangers compared to furnaces from 30
years ago is bad. Using stainless is good.
Stainless is good, but also much more expensive. Will the additional cost be
worth it in your location?
Keep in mind that heating and cooling systems are not built to last forever.
3) Using electronic ignition is bad comprimize from cost/savings point
of view compared to standing pilot light. No real need to use
electronic ignition in modern condensing furnace.
Please explain how this is so?? or do you advocate removing half of the
safety devices on the furnace in favor of a standing pilot?? I don't know of
*ANY* legitmate HVAC tech that would purposly want to remove safeties from
any gas appliance.
4) Using ECM motors is also bad comprimize compared to 1/4 or 1/3 hp AC
squirrel cage motor. *Actual* or *Net* energy savings don't justify
extra cost and reduced longevity.
Please explain how you come up with this.
BTW, I installed a new 3ton, 15SEER heat pump system for a customer 2 weeks
ago, he has the ability to monitor his *ACTUAL* energy usage. The new system
uses 1500 watts less energy to run it than the old system did.
Last January I installed a new 4 ton 14SEER dual fuel/hybrid system in my
own home and it reduced my energy usage by 42% over this last year. BOTH
systems have ECM blower motors, as well as ECM condenser fan motors.
As a consumer, give me the choice of electronic ignition or conventional
pilot. Give me the choice of ECM vs standard AC motor. Give me the
choice of mechanical thermostat (in the furnace) to control gas valve
and fan motor instead of electronic motherboard. Give me all stainless
for the exchangers. If you don't give me ALL those choices, then I say
that modern furnaces and the entire industry is a crock of ****.
So you want to go back in time and have your energy bills doubled.....
Technology is a good thing when the contractor/installer/tech has the
training, education, and experience. to me it sounds like your not happy
because its no longer a DIY proposition, and you can't make it work
correctly. in case you haven't noticed, *EVERYTHING* has electronics in it
these days. The electronics make things safer, and more energy efficient.
FWIW, a good quality digital control can reduce your energy bills 10% - 15%
by itself, as well as increase your comfort levels by not having the 5 - 7
degree temperature swings that a mechanical thermostat will give you.
Beyond the furnace itself, it's time to start ducting winter heat around
the AC coils instead of going through them. You want efficiency? It's
not efficient to blow air through coils when you don't need to do it
during the winter.
You can't be serious
It's also time to allow for spring/fall cooling by having ducting and
gating that allows the furnace to pull return air from the outside,
force it into the house, and gate the interior return air back to the
outside. When ever you want the house cooler, and the outside air is
cooler than the inside air, then why use your AC when you can draw
outside air into the house directly?
The A/C does *MORE* than just cool the air... but I just don't have the time
or the inclination to explain it all to you. Its pretty obvious that your
not a tech by any stretch of the imagination.
To the OP... I would highly recommend that you call your local *COMPETENT*,
licensed, insured, professionally trained, HVAC technician to do a complete
assesment of your home to see what it actually needs, and recomendations for
a top quality installation of a top quality system that is best suited for
your home in your particular climate.
--
Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C
"Stop calling me for freebies Satan,
I'll fix your air conditioner when you pay me, Cheapskate!"