On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 00:34:59 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I wonder if the dead TV was free, and if you hadn't been able to download a
pirated service manual for free, if you would have been willing to pay
$60-$100 for a service manual.
Essentially, you got lucky with the availability of the service
documentation.

Nearly anything man-made can be repaired.

New technology requires new equipment to be able to service it.. I see
micro-sized SMT components that are barely visible, and I wouldn't care to
handle repairs involving these components without the proper tools and a
very good microscope.

I have a B&L stereo zoom microscope, head worn stereo loupes (Eschenback and
others) and various video cameras that would be helpful in viewing the
micro stuff, but even these tools don't make repair jobs on the newer micro
stuff simple.

I have hot air and typical soldering/desoldering equipment, and professional
(above average hobbiest/enthusiast) troubleshooting equipment, and I still
don't have any desire to repair any of this cheaply made, newer technology
equipment.

I admit that if someone were to give me an out-of-warranty, free, expensive
piece of equipment, I'd be curious enough to spend a little time
troubleshooting just to satisfy my curiosity.

I prefer to buy quality older equipment that can be repaired (large CRT
stuff excluded), instead of microprocessor-based, firmware operated stuff
that's generally much more difficult to repair, even if any
documentation/online-hack info is available.

--
Cheers,
WB
No, the TV was not free. I have enough confidence in my skills that I
was willing to pay the seller's asking price for it. I'm not sure
where you came up with that $60-$100 price for a service manual; My
experience was that $10 was a more typical price, although one major
manufacturer sent them out free upon letterhead request. Your
assertion that I got lucky is pure bull**** - I KNEW the service
manual was available. But that is beside the point, many service
manuals are available at litte or no cost. Other equipment (LCD
monitors, for example) is simple enough that a service manual isn't
necessary.

I agree, a hot air station would make the rework easier, so what? The
fact is that a $15 kit of SolderQuik will substitute for your fancy
hot air system.

All told, you have proved my point. SMT does not make repair
impossible; I know it makes repair easier. Certainly it was easier to
replace the three SMT ICs than it would have been to replace the
larger through-hole devices.

Further, you have verified my other belief. It's not the cost of the
equipment that makes the difference, it's the brains of the person
using it.

PlainBill
.............


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:37:11 -0500, "Charles"
wrote:



"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

Sorry, but the year is 2010 and repair of recent and future electronic
products is not going to happen, as least as what can be accomplished by
Joe
consumer. For the factory authorized geek squad, sure they PERHAPS have
access to data and modules and software and they can, in some cases,
repair
electronic items.

I'd love for it be so, by the way. I detest sending stuff to landfills
and
to recycling centers. But the truth is that there is not much inside a
modern electronic gadget that is repairable. SMT has rendered component
replacement impossible, for many cases. Schematics are no longer
obtainable. Embedded software makes troubleshooting almost impossible.
Repair parts are not available. And the list goes on.

Richard Feynman (a Nobel winner) often talked about taking radios apart.
If
he would try that now, he would move on to biology.



Wrong on so many counts that it is laughable. SMT devices require new
techniques. ONE example of many similar events. About a year ago I
obtained a 'dead' 50" plasma TV. Plug it in, it tries to turn on,
then the red light on the front panel starts flashing 2 short, 1 long.
Download the service manual (free from Elektrotanya.com), it's
flashing error 12; problem with the 12V supply. Read the service
manual. 12V error may be due to a problem with the audio amp or with
the DC-DC converter. Disconnect the audio amp, no change. Read more
of the service manual. Overloading the 12V supply by the DC-DC
converter may be due to shorted mosfets. In that case, replace both
the mosfets and the controller, all are SMD parts. (The DC-DC-
converter is part of the Small Signal Board, available online for
under $100).

Order the parts from Digikey, for a total cost of less than $10,
including shipping. Use Chipquick and a soldering iron to remove the
old parts, solder braid to remove the old solder and Chipquick,
install the new parts. Reassemble the TV, cross my fingers, plug it
in. It turns on and works perfectly. Just for luck I verify all
power supply voltages and update it to the latest firmware.

The biggest problem was moving the 100 lb + monster around.

I've said this repeatedly, new technology requires new techniques.
The people who claim it's unrepairable either have a vested interest
in selling a new one or are incompetent.

PlainBill