On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:29:24 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:46:59 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

So, either the Bible is wrong or you are wrong. So far from what I have
seen you are 100% wrong 100% of the time and go around calling people
"crazymother****er" like you have a mental disorder.

RogerN

If we look at the bible it appears that Jehovah:

-Killed every person on earth except for Noah and his family,
presumably because everyone else was evil (including the babies??)
Later on it appears that Noah isn't such a "just man and perfect" (Gen
6:9) because he gets drunk.

-Likes to have animals that he created killed and burned. (Gen
8:20-21, 15:9, and elsewhere)

-Couldn't find even ten good people in either Sodom or Gomorrah (not
ten babies in an entire city?? Gen 18 and 19), so he killed everyone
in those cities.

-Doesn't complain when the righteous man Lot's daughters get him drunk
and get themselves knocked up by him. (Gen 19:31-35)

-Punishes the descendents of those who do evil; descendents are
screwed royally before they're ever born.

-Generated a worldwide famine (Gen 41:56), with huge amounts of
suffering (and presumably death) apparently to make Joseph rich.

-'Hardened the heart' of Pharoah several times, so that P wouldn't let
the Israelites go, even though Moses was told (by Jehovah) to ask for
their release.

-Kills a bunch of children for the heinous crime of being the
first-born children of Egyptians. (Exodus 11)

Now, is all of this true? It's in the bible...

True but you're taking the text out of context. For example if I just say
"Tim punched Bob" it could lead you to think Tim started the fight and
punched Bob for no reason. But if I tell the whole story that "Bob punched
Tim 1000 times before Tim punched Bob" you know Bob deserved what he got and
more, Tim was justified in his action. By telling what God did and not
telling of the events that lead up to God's action you are deceiving the
reader to think God wasn't justified, if you tell the whole story you see
they got what was coming to them long overdue. In many cases God warned for
years and years, even tens and hundreds of years before his judgment. The
judgment on the Egyptian children was decided by Pharaoh for the Israelites,
their harsh judgment got turned around on them. Descendents are
automatically punished by having the parents they have, their parents point
them down the wrong path, that's why so many youth voted for Obama. The
Bible tells the ugly truth about people, it doesn't mean it was God's will
for those things to happen, often if you follow along in context bad things
result from the sins of the "righteous". Also with some deeper
understanding you can figure out what makes a person righteous. In some
other verses the wording from the translation isn't all that clear to us,
sometimes "God did" could better be understood as "God permitted" or "God
allowed".

RogerN


OK, then enlighten me. What (and where in the bible) is the context
that justifies the killing of Egyptian children for something that
they didn't do, and that their parents didn't do, but for what the
Pharoah did?

Remember, Jehovah supposedly 'hardened the heart' of Pharoah to get
this result.

And what context (reference please) says that punishment of the
*descendants* of people who do bad things is, in fact, justice? If
you decide to kill a dozen people, should your son or daughter be
killed along with you? Your grandchildren? Of course not.

And what context indicates that everyone on earth, except for Noah and
his family, should be put to death? Kids too.

I don't expect to convince the diehard christians. But it's stuff
like that that made me realize, a long time ago, that these acts
simply were not justifiable. A supreme perfect being would *avoid*
killing the innocent along with the guilty. (In warfare, even *we*
try to minimize civilian deaths; a supreme being would be able to
avoid them entirely.)

It would not presuppose guilt because of what the President did or
your great-grandfather did. And it certainly wouldn't be as
bloodthirsty as Jehovah is purported to be. (42 kids ripped to shreds
by bears. No, they didn't kill or maim someone, they made fun of a
prophet's bald head. A *lot* over the top, by my way of thinking.)

By any reasonable human standards, Jehovah depicted in the bible is
anything but humane, anything but just. It took me a long time to
overcome what was hammered into me in childhood, but I finally decided
that this couldn't be true. And that the bible was a collection of
stories about a nonexistent thing.