On Aug 1, 9:30*am, Sum Guy wrote:
wrote:
Sigh... * Once again, traps in sewer systems are not there to
prevent your sewer from backing up. * They are there to prevent
SEWER GASES FROM ENTERING YOUR HOUSE every day. * If traps aren't
needed, why the hell does every sink, washer, toilet, etc have
one?

I've never argued against the fact that traps are needed and perform an
important function.


No, you just say you're gonna do it without a trap.




Yes, for fixtures like sinks and toilets that would otherwise have a
direct, open-air path to the sewer, the traps prevent an open-air direct
path.

But dishwashers and even clothes washers don't have such an open-air
path to a sewer pipe. *They have pumps and maybe even solenoid valve
blocking that path.


You have enough knowledge of the design of that pump to know that it
can't let sewer gas through? Does the plumbing code say it's OK to
rely on what you're doing instead of a trap?




You're concerned that water may be running out of the dishwasher,
but not that sewer gas can be coming back in? * Sounds great.
Cleaned dishes sitting in a closed dishwasher, exposed to sewer
gas.

When the dishwasher is running and circulating water, then obviously
there can't be a direct open-air path from the inside of the washer to
the sewer pipe, otherwise the water would immediately drain out.

No one here is gonna know how your dishwasher, which you don't
even indicate the make or model

Kenmore portable, purchased fall 1996. *I found the operating manual and
installation instructions. *The model numbers on the manual don't match
the number on the decal on the washer. *There is no mention of
hose-routing concerns in either manual. *Probably because it's
physically impossible to route the drain line at a continuous down-angle
from the pump given a "normal" installation.

But even that will probably not answer the question. *They will
show how it should be installed, but likely won't tell you what
happens if you do it another way.

Correct.

But instead of speculating, why don't you just put a high loop in
it temporarily and see if it then works correctly?

That I will have to do. *I just thought that I wouldn't have been the
only one here who would have run a dishwasher discharge line directly
down through the floor below the washer.

And regardless, get a trap and do it right.

By adding an "up-loop", I am effectively forming a trap inside the
washer that will always contain some water. *Or do you dispute that?


Yes I dispute that. What you will have isn't a trap. It's an upside
down trap. When the dishwasher is done pumping, water on the sewer
side will run into the sewer. It will likely siphon the rest of the
water from the dishwasher side with it. Or the water left in that
side could run back into the bottom of the dishwasher basin. That
leaves the hose empty.

I can just imagine what other improvisations you have made that are
illegal.