rangerssuck wrote:
On Jun 2, 8:44 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:20:57 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:50 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:
On May 31, 9:53 pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.
This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,
Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?
There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,
You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.
What is the point of doing that ?
No need to move every circuit. No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.
For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...
I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.
Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...
Moving circuits takes the electrician time.
My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.
If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You strip everything out but the metal box. The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.
I know that. But using it as a SUB PANEL, as suggested, does NOT
involve stripping it out. I thought It was pretty dang clear what I
was saying ---

OK guys, let me clarify, and then add a question.

The old box is a Federal Pacific 100A. I haven't had any problems with
the breakers - they trip when they should, but when I go to sell the
house, I know it's going to be an issue.

I wouldn't use the FPE breakers either.

Also, the panel is full. I
need to add more circuits. There's already a sub panel with 6 circuits
next to the main. The existing wires (old BX, some going back to the
late 1920s, some to the 1960s) are almost certainly too short to work
in a new 200A box. If I don't use the old box as a junction box, I'd
just have to mount another large junction box (or several smaller
ones) in its place. There's no way I'm going to pull new cable for all
these circuits.

Though I CAN be down for a while, running on a generator, I'd rather
not be. I was thinking that a plan would be to get the new box & meter
pan installed with just a couple of utility outlets nearby. Then I
could have the power company come and switch the service over to the
new meter, then I could backfeed from the new box to the old box.

At that point, the house is powered, and I can proceed with extending
the circuits to the new panel, one at a time. When all that's done,
I'll remove the backfeed and take out the guts of the old box and
screw its door shut. At that point, I can start adding the new
circuits I need.

Does that sound like an OK plan?

Yup. Probably the easiest way. and fastest to get everything repowered
temporarily. Probably good, in particular, for do-it-yourself.

Nice information you got from your inspector.

If there is room for the new service wire feed, the new panel can be
placed where the old one is, with the old circuit wires coming into the
top of the new panel. If the old circuits are BX and Romex it is
relatively easy. If EMT, lining up holes can be a pain. It is longer
time until everything is refed. The electrician may rather do it this way.


Now, my question:
When extending the circuits from the old box to the new one, do I also
extend the individual ground wires, or can I leave them on the bus bar
and rely on the conduit (actually, in all likelihood, this will be two
or three 1" or so nipples) to continue the ground?

It would be code compliant. I would rather add a wire, maybe #6. I
believe if all the circuit wires were #12 or smaller and you connected
the panels with PVC. the NEC would only require a single #12 ground wire
to the old panel - probably would be a good way to make the inspector
unhappy.

Many wires in conduit requires derating of the wire ampacity. If the
pipes are 2' or less in length derating is not required. Since you
called them nipples you are probably know that.

Since the electrician is pulling the permit, he may not want you doing
some of the work. Helping, or even watching. is a great way to learn. I
think I may have driven some tradesmen crazy.


In the end, it's going to be up to the electrician, but I want to go
into this with a good starting point for discussion.

I always like to know what the considerations are before talking to
someone who will do any work.

--
bud--