I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

Ultimately it will be up to the inspector, but it is often done, and yes you
would gut the panel and screw the door closed.

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:



I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.


What is the point of doing that ?

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:



I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.


What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

rangerssuck wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

That is exactly what previous owner did in this place. The addition
required moving service and a service upgrade, so rather than re-pull
all the old circuits, they gutted the panel and used it as a giant
J-box. Didn't do a real clean job, and it is on my list to open it up
and check it out one of these days. New panel has an 'installed by, and
in case of problems call' sticker from a local 'real' electrician
company, so presumably it is kosher. But they just taped over the old
breaker holes inside the door, and didn't put in blank covers or screw
it shut or anything, so I at least want to take care of that before I
put the house up for sale in 2-3 years. No idea if the removed the old
buss bars, but the new connections are floating in space so presumably
they aren't connected to anything. (I peeled tape loose on one corner,
and peeked in with a flashlight. I shuddered, and closed it back up.)
Old and new panels are about 8 feet apart.

If you go this way, recommend dressing the old panel real well so it
doesn't look like a rat's nest like mine does. Label the runs with
breaker number for new panel, and maybe leave a typed printout inside
the door for the poor SOB 20 years from now trying to figure it out. And
find plugs for the old breaker holes, or screw the door shut.

--
aem sends....

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,


*It's been done, however that old panel is not an approved junction box.
You would need to remove the guts and plug any holes and the cover would
have to be screwed shut. I would talk to the electrical inspector to see if
he would allow that. I think it would be much neater looking to just swing
all of the old wires into the new panel.

On 5/31/2010 8:48 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,
One more vote for doing it your way. That is what the electricians
did when I upgraded. They stripped all the old stuff out, then
ran new cables to the new box and wire nutted them together. After
that they screwed the old box shut and marked the door that there
were no user serviceable parts inside. The inspector here was
happy with the job.

Bill

On Jun 1, 7:05*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

*It's been done, however that old panel is not an approved junction box.
You would need to remove the guts and plug any holes and the cover would
have to be screwed shut. *I would talk to the electrical inspector to see if
he would allow that. *I think it would be much neater looking to just swing
all of the old wires into the new panel.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Many times they are too short.

If they come from all directions I would reroute the ones I could
straight to the new box. Otherwsie I'd do the same thing.

"Bill Gill" wrote in message
...
On 5/31/2010 8:48 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,
One more vote for doing it your way. That is what the electricians
did when I upgraded. They stripped all the old stuff out, then
ran new cables to the new box and wire nutted them together. After
that they screwed the old box shut and marked the door that there
were no user serviceable parts inside. The inspector here was
happy with the job.

Bill

I agree, but John Grabowski's point, that it's not an approved junction box,
is the gray area, and why I would check with the inspector.

On May 31, 9:48*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

I did it and the inspector made me remove the existing front and
replace it with a solid piece of metal. No biggy I just used the old
front as a template.

Jimmie

On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53Â*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:



I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. Â*At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.


What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.

On Jun 1, 9:50*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "





wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... *Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... *Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You strip everything out but the metal box. The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.

On May 31, 11:28*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:



On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... *Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... *Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.


Agreed, it takes time when you have the electrician MOVE the
actual wire for each circuit from the old panel enclosure to
the new one IF IT WILL REACH...

Popping wire nuts on each conductor and extending a circuit
to the new panel in a large diameter segment of conduit that
runs from the old panel to the new panel won't take as long
as you think...

The wiring runs in the old installation to the old panel are
fine if you don't start messing with them, you have no idea
what will happen to older wiring when you start bending it
in a new way to route it to the new panel...

As long as you have the required conductor length inside
the old panel (you will find you have more than plenty as
minimum) you can use it as a junction box after you gut
the panel and remove all the old fuses/circuit breakers
and all the busbars...

~~ Evan

On May 31, 11:33*pm, aemeijers wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

That is exactly what previous owner did in this place. The addition
required moving service and a service upgrade, so rather than re-pull
all the old circuits, they gutted the panel and used it as a giant
J-box. Didn't do a real clean job, and it is on my list to open it up
and check it out one of these days. New panel has an 'installed by, and
in case of problems call' sticker from a local 'real' electrician
company, so presumably it is kosher. But they just taped over the old
breaker holes inside the door, and didn't put in blank covers or screw
it shut or anything, so I at least want to take care of that before I
put the house up for sale in 2-3 years. No idea if the removed the old
buss bars, but the new connections are floating in space so presumably
they aren't connected to anything. (I peeled tape loose on one corner,
and peeked in with a flashlight. I shuddered, and closed it back up.)
Old and new panels are about 8 feet apart.

If you go this way, recommend dressing the old panel real well so it
doesn't look like a rat's nest like mine does. Label the runs with
breaker number for new panel, and maybe leave a typed printout inside
the door for the poor SOB 20 years from now trying to figure it out. And
find plugs for the old breaker holes, or screw the door shut.

--
aem sends....


Or you could buy a piece of sheet metal of the correct thickness
and cut it to the correct dimensions and shape to properly seal
the front of the old panel, drill cover plate screw holes in the right
places, paint it a color which won't be out of place and install...

How nicely do you want it dressed ? It is a junction box, not
a service panel... Unless something serious happens no one
should ever have to open it again...

~~ Evan

On Jun 1, 10:20*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:50*pm, wrote:



On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "

wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor..

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... *Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... *Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You strip everything out but the metal box. *The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.


True most of the time... I guess you have never seen a panel that has
been corroded by exposure to an excessively moist basement...

If the panel enclosure is stable and not corroded it can be used as
a junction box, just ask the inspector what sort of covering they
want to enclose the front...

~~ Evan

On Jun 2, 12:21*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:20*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jun 1, 9:50*pm, wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "

wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... *Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... *Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You strip everything out but the metal box. *The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.

True most of the time... *I guess you have never seen a panel that has
been corroded by exposure to an excessively moist basement...

If the panel enclosure is stable and not corroded it can be used as
a junction box, just ask the inspector what sort of covering they
want to enclose the front...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I guess you have never seen a panel that has been corroded by
exposure to an excessively moist basement"

...or by water that found it's way into the panel via the service wire.

Water was getting inside the insulation of the main at the bugs and
finding it's way into the box, dripping in right above the main
breaker. Even though the service wire did have a few "uphills" along
the run, the water made it through anyway.

The quick fix - before the service was eventually replaced - was a
very small slit in the covering of the service wire at it's lowest
point, which was just below the meter. When the homeowner slit the
jacket, water dripped out for a few minutes and then stopped. It was a
year before he had it replaced and he never got another drop in the
breaker box after the slit was made.

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. At least some of
the
circuits could be left in the old.

In most places the "sub" has to separate neutral from ground.

When all is done and said, it may be more trouble than it's worth.

The best solution is to entirely remove the old panel and plop the new panel
in the same place. You might want to look at several panels to find one
that best approximates the location of the feed wires and the loads used in
the existing box.

The odds are that the electrician will not have to use any "wire stretching"
techniques.

On May 31, 9:48*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

OK. I spoke with the local electrical inspector and he said that even
though it's not his favorite way to do this, when he was a contractor
he did it all the time. Just make sure you screw the door closed. The
fact is that if I don't use the big box as a junction box, I'd have to
mount a bunch of other boxes anyway since most of the wires are way
too short to make it to the new panel.

The bottom line is, it's OK with him, and it will save a bunch of time
& money.

On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:20:57 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Jun 1, 9:50Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "





wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53Â*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. Â*At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. Â*No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Â*Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Â*Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You strip everything out but the metal box. The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.
I know that. But using it as a SUB PANEL, as suggested, does NOT
involve stripping it out. I thought It was pretty dang clear what I
was saying ---

On Jun 1, 8:50*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "



wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... *Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... *Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

You're assuming information not in evidence. The OP simply said that
he was upgrading the service from 100A to 200A. It is quite possible
that there is nothing wrong with the current panel. Using it as a sub
would save considerable work.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.

Again, you're assuming information not in evidence. Wires are
*always* too short to go where they weren't intended to go. Some may
reach, move those. If he's blessed and they all move without
"stretching" the whole point of the sub/j-box is moot.

Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.

Hardly the norm.

On Jun 2, 8:44*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:20:57 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:50*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "

wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Jun 2, 8:44 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:20:57 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:50 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:
On May 31, 9:53 pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:
I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.
This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,
Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?
There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,
You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.
What is the point of doing that ?
No need to move every circuit. No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.
For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...
I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.
Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...
Moving circuits takes the electrician time.
My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.
If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You strip everything out but the metal box. The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.
I know that. But using it as a SUB PANEL, as suggested, does NOT
involve stripping it out. I thought It was pretty dang clear what I
was saying ---

OK guys, let me clarify, and then add a question.

The old box is a Federal Pacific 100A. I haven't had any problems with
the breakers - they trip when they should, but when I go to sell the
house, I know it's going to be an issue.

I wouldn't use the FPE breakers either.

Also, the panel is full. I
need to add more circuits. There's already a sub panel with 6 circuits
next to the main. The existing wires (old BX, some going back to the
late 1920s, some to the 1960s) are almost certainly too short to work
in a new 200A box. If I don't use the old box as a junction box, I'd
just have to mount another large junction box (or several smaller
ones) in its place. There's no way I'm going to pull new cable for all
these circuits.

Though I CAN be down for a while, running on a generator, I'd rather
not be. I was thinking that a plan would be to get the new box & meter
pan installed with just a couple of utility outlets nearby. Then I
could have the power company come and switch the service over to the
new meter, then I could backfeed from the new box to the old box.

At that point, the house is powered, and I can proceed with extending
the circuits to the new panel, one at a time. When all that's done,
I'll remove the backfeed and take out the guts of the old box and
screw its door shut. At that point, I can start adding the new
circuits I need.

Does that sound like an OK plan?

Yup. Probably the easiest way. and fastest to get everything repowered
temporarily. Probably good, in particular, for do-it-yourself.

Nice information you got from your inspector.

If there is room for the new service wire feed, the new panel can be
placed where the old one is, with the old circuit wires coming into the
top of the new panel. If the old circuits are BX and Romex it is
relatively easy. If EMT, lining up holes can be a pain. It is longer
time until everything is refed. The electrician may rather do it this way.


Now, my question:
When extending the circuits from the old box to the new one, do I also
extend the individual ground wires, or can I leave them on the bus bar
and rely on the conduit (actually, in all likelihood, this will be two
or three 1" or so nipples) to continue the ground?

It would be code compliant. I would rather add a wire, maybe #6. I
believe if all the circuit wires were #12 or smaller and you connected
the panels with PVC. the NEC would only require a single #12 ground wire
to the old panel - probably would be a good way to make the inspector
unhappy.

Many wires in conduit requires derating of the wire ampacity. If the
pipes are 2' or less in length derating is not required. Since you
called them nipples you are probably know that.

Since the electrician is pulling the permit, he may not want you doing
some of the work. Helping, or even watching. is a great way to learn. I
think I may have driven some tradesmen crazy.


In the end, it's going to be up to the electrician, but I want to go
into this with a good starting point for discussion.

I always like to know what the considerations are before talking to
someone who will do any work.

--
bud--

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:56:27 -0700 (PDT), keith
wrote:

On Jun 1, 8:50Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "



wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53Â*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. Â*At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. Â*No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Â*Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Â*Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

You're assuming information not in evidence. The OP simply said that
he was upgrading the service from 100A to 200A. It is quite possible
that there is nothing wrong with the current panel. Using it as a sub
would save considerable work.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.

Again, you're assuming information not in evidence. Wires are
*always* too short to go where they weren't intended to go. Some may
reach, move those. If he's blessed and they all move without
"stretching" the whole point of the sub/j-box is moot.

No, the wires are NOT alkways too short, if you remove the old panel
and replace it with a new panel, in the same place. I've done it
numerous times. I've only ever had one or two wires that could not be
made to reach in the new panel, in all the panels I've replaced. And
by "made to reach" I don't mean stretched across the corner or
anything. Always looked professionally done when finished.
On occaision it meant using the bottom couple of breakers, along with
all the rest closer to the top of the panel instead of all bunched
together. When I finally replace my fuse panel, the stove and dryer
breakers will be at the bottom of the panel, because that's where the
220 pullouts are in my old fuse box.

Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.

Hardly the norm.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 06:17:25 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Jun 2, 8:44Â*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:20:57 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:50Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "

wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53Â*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. Â*At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. Â*No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

Most of the circuits in the old panel will be run using #14 or #12
wire,
with a few using larger size wire for major appliances... Â*Running the
existing panel as a sub panel would require moving some of those
loads and running a new feeder for the sub-panel... Â*Much easier
to just use the old panel as a junction box and be done with it...

Moving circuits takes the electrician time.

My read on it is if the wires are too short to reach in the new panel
it can be a LOT of work - so using the existing banel as a junction
reduces that work considerably. Using it as a sub panel does not solve
the "likely" problem that caused him to consider replacing the panel -
either fuses or old breakers and possibly deteriorating panel
condition.

If the wires are not too short, and are in good condition, moving all
the circuits from the old panel to the new is ONLY a couple hours
work, max.
Last one I did was only about 2 hours total - most of it in the dark,
all of it in the cold, with the service live.
Electric heat and all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You strip everything out but the metal box. Â*The metal box is not what
gets old and deteriorated.

Â*I know that. But using it as a SUB PANEL, as suggested, does NOT
involve stripping it out. I thought It was pretty dang clear what I
was saying ---

OK guys, let me clarify, and then add a question.

The old box is a Federal Pacific 100A. I haven't had any problems with
the breakers - they trip when they should, but when I go to sell the
house, I know it's going to be an issue. Also, the panel is full. I
need to add more circuits. There's already a sub panel with 6 circuits
next to the main. The existing wires (old BX, some going back to the
late 1920s, some to the 1960s) are almost certainly too short to work
in a new 200A box. If I don't use the old box as a junction box, I'd
just have to mount another large junction box (or several smaller
ones) in its place. There's no way I'm going to pull new cable for all
these circuits.

Though I CAN be down for a while, running on a generator, I'd rather
not be. I was thinking that a plan would be to get the new box & meter
pan installed with just a couple of utility outlets nearby. Then I
could have the power company come and switch the service over to the
new meter, then I could backfeed from the new box to the old box.

At that point, the house is powered, and I can proceed with extending
the circuits to the new panel, one at a time. When all that's done,
I'll remove the backfeed and take out the guts of the old box and
screw its door shut. At that point, I can start adding the new
circuits I need.

Does that sound like an OK plan?

Now, my question:
When extending the circuits from the old box to the new one, do I also
extend the individual ground wires, or can I leave them on the bus bar
and rely on the conduit (actually, in all likelihood, this will be two
or three 1" or so nipples) to continue the ground?

In the end, it's going to be up to the electrician, but I want to go
into this with a good starting point for discussion.

Thanks


Just a couple questions - do all the cables come in one side of the
100 amp panel, or do they come in both sides? Most FPE integrated
entry panels do not allow cable entry from the service side - so I'd
assume yours all come in either top, bottom, or right side (most FPE
integrated panels have the main on the left).

If this is the case, simply move the panel 6 inches to the right, and
every cable will be lots long enough to fit. If the cables are bottom
entry you may need to use the lower breaker positions for those wires.

And for the other guys - why would using a suspect panel (the FPE)
which he is replacing due to percieved safety issues as a sub panel be
any kind of a sensible move???.

ANd the 200 amp panel will have plenty of space for existing plus
additional circuits. The "sub panel" wouls shout "mickey mouse" to the
next buyer or their home inspector.

If you're gonna do the job - not only DO it right, but make it LOOK
right too.

wrote:
....

....[aside...doesn't anybody ever trim anything???]...

Just a couple questions - do all the cables come in one side of the
100 amp panel, or do they come in both sides? Most FPE integrated
entry panels do not allow cable entry from the service side - so I'd
assume yours all come in either top, bottom, or right side (most FPE
integrated panels have the main on the left).

They don't and they are???? News to me...

I've got a bunch of FPE panels and they all allow feed access from all
four sides or thru rear and all have the main centered at the top...

If this is the case, simply move the panel 6 inches to the right, and
every cable will be lots long enough to fit. ...

Good, if so...


And for the other guys - why would using a suspect panel (the FPE)
which he is replacing due to percieved safety issues as a sub panel be
any kind of a sensible move???.

ANd the 200 amp panel will have plenty of space for existing plus
additional circuits. The "sub panel" wouls shout "mickey mouse" to the
next buyer or their home inspector.

If you're gonna do the job - not only DO it right, but make it LOOK
right too.

I'd generally agree on that sentiment/philosophy.

--

On Jun 2, 12:50*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 2, 12:21*pm, Evan wrote:



On Jun 1, 10:20*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Jun 1, 9:50*pm, wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "

wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

On Jun 3, 2:19*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:56:27 -0700 (PDT), keith
wrote:



On Jun 1, 8:50*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:28:53 -0500, "

wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 31, 9:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:48:52 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my electrical service from 100A to 200A. New
meter, new panel and all that. What I want to know is wheter I can
leave the old breaker panel on the wall with the new one mounted next
to it, using the old one as a junction box so I don't have to move all
those wires (which will inevitably be too short) to the new box.

This way, I could put a couple of pieces of pipe between the two
panels and wire nut extensions to each wire in the old panel to bring
it over to the new,

Is this kosher? Would I also pull out all the bus bars from the old
box? Do I have to screw its cover closed?

There will be a licensed electrician and permits for this work, but
I'm looking to do a bunch of the grunt work myself to save a few bucks
and maybe learn something along the way,

You could leave the old box as a sub panel for the new. *At least some of the
circuits could be left in the old.

What is the point of doing that ?

No need to move every circuit. *No need to splice wires that are too short to
make it to the new box.

For a couple of spools of wire in various colors and wire gauge sizes,
the OP can have all of the circuits fed from the new panel...

I know you can't read, but he's trying to save the electrician's labor.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 19:12:45 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Jun 3, 2:43Â*pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:

...

...[aside...doesn't anybody ever trim anything???]...

Just a couple questions - do all the cables come in one side of the
100 amp panel, or do they come in both sides? Most FPE integrated
entry panels do not allow cable entry from the service side - so I'd
assume yours all come in either top, bottom, or right side (most FPE
integrated panels have the main on the left).

They don't and they are???? Â*News to me...

I've got a bunch of FPE panels and they all allow feed access from all
four sides or thru rear and all have the main centered at the top...

If this is the case, simply move the panel 6 inches to the right, and
every cable will be lots long enough to fit. ...

Good, if so...



And for the other guys - why would using a suspect panel (the FPE)
which he is replacing due to percieved safety issues as a sub panel be
any kind of a sensible move???.

ANd the 200 amp panel will have plenty of space for existing plus
additional circuits. The "sub panel" wouls shout "mickey mouse" to the
next buyer or their home inspector.

If you're gonna do the job - not only DO it right, but make it LOOK
right too.

I'd generally agree on that sentiment/philosophy.

--

I agree If it looks right, it probably is right. But:

1) This panel has the main at the top. Most of the wires are fed from
the top, but some are from the left. It's conceivable that I could
pull out the old box and put a new one in its place, but doing so
would involve flexing those old cables a lot, and that scares me. I
did some work in the kitchen recently, and while the old wire wasn't
exactly crumbling, it wasn't very flexible, either.


Then using it as a junction box makes some sense - ASSUMING the wire
is not deteriorated enough that simplu moving it in the enclosure
causes the insulation to flake off- - - - - - - .
2) Using the old box as a junction box and mounting the new one next
to it won't look any worse than what's already there. This is an old
house, and it's never going to be a new house without ripping out ALL
the wires and starting over from scratch, and that is simply not going
to happen.

More important to me, at this time, is to do a good, safe job, and to
have room in the new panel to add a half-dozen or so circuits which
are sorely needed. While the walls were open for plumbing work, I ran
a piece of 6/3 up to the attic so that I can (later) put a sub panel
there to feed some new outlets in the second-floor bedrooms. The old
panel is full. I need a bigger one just to have a place to connect
that 6/3, if for no other reason.

Given that update - go for using the existing panel (gutted) as a
junction box