"Existential Angst" wrote in message
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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
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"RicodJour" wrote in message
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On Dec 15, 10:15 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:
Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a
"climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent
conversation.
Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.
Uh, I am *not* going to get into this argument, but climb cutting and
conventional cutting apply to many types of cutting tools, including saw
blades. In fact, in production woodworking, there are ripping saws that
operate in the climb mode for the express purpose of avoiding tear-out.
They
require fancy hold-downs and feed mechanisms for the workpieces, so they
don't go flying out of the saw. I've seen them, and I've written about
them,
and I've had discussions with the blade makers about the differences in
the
two types of blades.
Interesting. I've never heard of such a thing with a saw blade, and
DAGS to see if there was such a beast as a circular saw climb cut -
the search didn't turn up a single example in the first two pages of
results. Can you post a link to a climb cutting machine or something
you wrote about it?
I knew you'd ask that. g It was between 20 and 25 years ago; the story
was about using wirecut EDM to shape sinterred diamond compacts on the
cutters used in both metalworking (a minor use) and woodworking (the
major use), particularly on commercial spindle-shapers and routers. The
discussion about saw blades was peripheral to the subject, because EDM
isn't used to shape the edges of those.
All I can recall is this: In production rip-sawing, the issue is how the
cutter *exits* the cut, rather than how it enters. Apparently -- and this
is from memory -- saw blades used in commercial ripping just barely
extend through the top of the cut, so the re-entry isn't an issue. On the
top side of the work, it's almost the same whether you consider it climb-
or conventional-cutting. But it makes a big difference when the blade
finally leaves the bottom of the cut. If it's cutting when it comes out
of the workpiece, it's going to tear the edges of the cut, as any
hobbyist woodworker knows from conventional work with a table saw. In the
discussion, running the blade in the reverse direction of what most of us
condider the "conventional" one, in which the blade exits the work "not
cutting," was what they were calling "climb cutting," and apparently
that's the preferred mode for production. It requires friction drive and
hold-down rollers; the work is fed under power.
BTW, some commercial saws operate upside-down, with the blade(s) above
the work, so you might have to reverse "up" and "down" from this
discussion. That may just be for multi-blade ripping of lumber; I've
never actually seen one of those saws.
I never got involved in studying production woodworking except for that
single application, and it was because I covered tooling for a couple of
metalworking magazines and I had a client who made special wire EDMs for
that work, when I wasn't a staff editor.
Sorry I can't refer you to my article. That old stuff isn't archived
online and I wrote over 350 articles about metalworking and tooling, so I
don't remember where it ran.
In the machines you're talking about, the workpiece/sawblade is moving
in the opposite direction to the normal direction of movement. With
the Dual Saw type of saws, one of the counter rotating blades is
always moving opposite the 'normal' direction of movement - and in
fact that that is the primary reason the tool can get away without
hold downs and feed mechanisms (equal and opposite canceling and all
of that), and the reason that the tool shouldn't grab and kick, it
seems to me that the tool isn't climb cutting, so much as just
cutting. The adjectives canceled out. So is there really a climb cut
in such a tool?
A good question; I don't know about those saws. I hesitated to jump in
here at all, except to point out that there is something that is, or was,
called "climb cutting" in production sawing, and that it's similar to
what we mean by the term in metalworking, with milling cutters.
I will now go back to my nap. g
Well, Ed, if you can't provide a cite, it can't be true!! So now, you are
a bull****ter, just like me!!
Welcome to the club.
What's funny is, the asshole duo here, ****ty and his friend Rico, DID
look up climb cutting and STILL couldn't get the skinny!!
Why??
Well, in addition to having less than one complete brain between them,
they were so hot to discredit me, they basically didn't *want* to find
anything.
What they want is some other asshole with some measured erudite "voice of
reason" to painfully and carefully test out bull****, write a big long
frigging "study", so they can quote/cite something so they themselves look
erudite, instead of just opening their own fukn eyes and thinking for
their own fukn selves.
Too much to ask.
Sheeit, they proly still believe in Cold fukn Fusion, because Fleischman
and Pons published a peer-reviewed article. Albeit a bull****
peer-reviewed article, but that's OK for Rico and ****ty.
Bull**** is bull****. A ripoff is a ripoff. Deception is deception, and
malintent is malintent.
Flavor it all any way you want, apply whatever bull**** voice of reason
you want, it's still ripoff bull****, which, given the amount of it on the
airwaves, is affecting the very fabric of our culture.
Which is all way over the heads of these two assholes, and a cupla others
here.
**** them. Let them buy a dual saw.
--
EA
A suggestion: Why don't you take all of that ability you have and write
something really worthwhile with it? I know I'm the last one who should be
talking, arguing here about racism, birther bull****, and so on, but I have
an excuse. For me, it's a busman's holiday. g
Here's a good one. Do you get Harper's? My old friend Alan Tonelson wrote
the editorial this month (next month, actually; it's in the January issue),
about US manufacturing and globalism, and it's a smorgasbord of subjects to
pick up and write about. Anyone with some experience selling job-shop
services ought to see several ideas in Tonelson's overview. The metalworking
magazines would be interested, if you really think about it hard before
writing.
This is the lead, but it will cut you off if you don't have a subscription.
"Up from globalism":
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/01/0082768
--
Ed Huntress