On Oct 31, 10:26*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:37*am, wrote:





On Oct 29, 8:25*pm, JIMMIE wrote:

On Oct 29, 8:24*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , wrote:

The only issue I have with Doug is that he refuses to acknowledge that
there is only a max 200 amp current flowing in the service cable. * *I
freely answered ALL his questions, yet for some reason he won't give a
straight answer to the simple question of how many amps max can ever
be flowing in the service cable. * And in trying to evade the question
he dragged in voltage and power, which are seperate from the question
of how many amps max are ever flowing in the service cable.

"But as far as the loads go, you do have 400 amps going
through them, 120V * 400a = 48KVA of power".

That's a quote from one of *your* posts.

Apparently, it *is* possible to have a current 200 amps -- as long as it's
you saying so, not me.

Nope I made a mistake, I meant to point out that the OP could get the
power he wanted but not at 400 amps.

So expalin us the physics whereby I can get 48KVA at 120 volts without
a current of 400 amps.

What I said was wrong. Im still
trying to figure out what led me so say what I did *

No, when you said a 200 amp service can support 400 amps worth of
120volt load you were correct. * It's now that you;'ve reversed
yourself that you are wrong.

There are lot of
numbers you can multiply times each other and get 48K you might as
well pick any from the group if you use your logic.

That is correct because that is EXACTLY what you can do. * *Which is
why I gave other examples. *Let's take a heater consisting of a a .
3ohm resistance. The box says it's 60volts, 200 amps, 12Kwatts or
KVA. *Agree?

*I take TWO of those and place them is series and connect them to one
side of the service. * I take another two and place them in series on
the other side of the service. * *I now have 4 loads. * Each one is
running at 200 amps and 60volts. *Agree?

*I'm now supporting FOUR 200 amp, 60 volt loads. * *Across the service
it looks like one 240volt, 200 amp load. * *Capishe?

The panel is rated
200 amps @ 240 volts, not 400 amps@ 120 volts. Power has nothing to do
with it. I could use the box to distribute 24VAC and it would still
only be able to handle 200 amps. According to your logic it should
handle 2000 amps, Hey that's 48KW said very much tongue in cheek..

No, according to my correct logic and math the current in the service
is still 200 amps which is what the panel is rated for. * * However if
I use voltage division, I can divide up that VOLTAGE across various
loads any way I want. * I gave you a clear example of that above.

Since you say otherwise, please to explain how a 240volt, 200 amp
48KVA service becomes only capable of supporting 200 amps of 120volt
load. * * You even said if the homeowner asked you:

What is the maximum 120 volt load that I can hook up to this 200 amp,
240volt servce?

Your answer would be 200 amps.

My answer and I think virtually everyone else in this thread's answer
is 400 amps, because in fact that is how much 120 volt load can be
hooked up. * *With your answer, the homeowner goes out, looks at the
rating labels on all the equipment and is limited to 200 amps,
120volt, 24KVA. * *Where is the rest of the poor guy's power?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But the box doesnt see them as 120 volt loads. It doesnt care.


No **** Sherlock. I never said anything inconsistent with that.


Case 1 : if they are all connected to one leg of the 200 amp service
all you can draw is 200 amps before the breaker pops with 0 current in
the other leg. Yo uare only using 1/2 the box.24KW
Case 2 Same as case 1 but for the other leg.
Case 3 they are evenly distributed on each leg, when you do this the
box no longer sees them as individual 120vac loads but sees them as
240vac load so now you have 240vac at 200amps or 48KW

The operative word here is LOADS. It's plural because there are TWO
120volt loads, with a current of 200 amps flowing through EACH of
them. If instead of TWO 120volt loads with 200 amps flowing through
each of them, you can have only one 120volt 200 amp load, which is
what you claim, then you just lost half your load capacity and the
math does not add up.

You told the homeowner the service will only suipport 200 amps of
120volt load. Following your answer, he buys only 200 amps worth of
120volt eqpt and that is all he ever hooks up, drawing a max of
24KVA. You're comfortable with that answer?

Following the answer the rest of the folks in this thread know to be
correct, he goes out and buys 400amps worth of 120volt eqpt, places
half of it on one leg, half on the other, and he's got 48KVA. Our
math adds up, yours does not. It's also not even debatable, because
we all know in the real world that 200 amp service can in fact support
400 amps of 120 volt eqpt. Not a single person in this thread is
arguing otherwise, except you.



AT no time were you allowed to excede 200 amps.

And one more time, I have said the total current flowing in the
service cable is a max of 200 amps.




In case 1 the current path is 200 amps from L1 to the neutral wire.
*In case 2 the current path is from L2 to the neutral wire.
In case 3 the current path is *from L1 to L2. L1 and L2 ar across 240
vac not 120vac. In this case the 120 vac loads are in series forming
240 vac loads. 240vac x 200amps = your 48Kw There are no 120VAC loads
as far as the panel is concerned.



Who cares as far as the panel is concerned? That is not the issue.
The issue is how much current is flowing as far as each of the 120volt
loads is concerned. The panel with 200 amps flowing can support a
VARIETY OF VOLTAGE and loads. You can divide up the voltage across
multiple loads any way you want. I gave you an example of how you
could divide it up and get that 200 amps flowing across four 60 volt
loads. You then are supporting 800 amps worth of 60 volt load.
800X60=48KVA and once again, we have all the power accounted for
across all four loads.

Again, the simple question from the homeowner is:

What is the maximum 120volt load that I can support in my house with a
200 amp service. The answer is always the same, 400 amps. You
still have not explained how the homeowner gets cheated out of half
his power if he listens to your answer and only buys 200 amps worth of
eqpt. Doesn't that bother you?



One more time:


------------------- 240Volts--------------
I I
I I
I I
I---------.6ohms--------.6ohms--------
load 1 load 2


Simple, basic questions:



How much current is flowing in this circuit: 200 amps

What is the current flowing in load 1: 200 amps

What is the current flowing in load 2: 200 amps

What is the voltage across load 1: 120volts

What is the voltage across load 2: 120volts

What is the power in EACH of these loads? 120voltsX200 amps= 24KVA

How many amps of 120volt load is being supported? 400

How many amps worth of 120 volt heaters could I buy and hook up in
this way? 400

What is the total power? 120voltsX400 amps=48KVA, or 240voltsX200
amps =48KVA.

Notice how the math ALL adds up. There is no missing power and the
homeowner gets to hook up 400 amps worth of 120 volt eqpt. hust like
in the real world. Following your answer the poor guy only hooks
up 200 amps worth of 120volt eqpt. Where did the other half of his
power and load disappear to?