"Screed" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote in
:

I've had a GFCI outlet that powers a refrigerator and some kitchen and
basement outlets trip twice within the last year. I've reset it after
each trip and it seems to go another six months before it trips again.

What's the best way to determine if this is just a random event or
whether the GFCI is pointing toward a potential shock hazard?

--
Bobby G.




Refrigerators require their own dedicated circuit with no GFCI.

That's probably the way it will end up as this is more or less a temporary
wiring setup. We discovered halfway through a recent rewire other, more
pressing problems when the basement plywood walls came down. Not an unusual
situation, from what I've read here about remodeling. Several expensive
mysteries were revealed that stalled the rewiring initiative. But I
digress.

Kitchen receptacles require their own dedicated circuit/'s as well, They
need to be GFCI protected only if the receptacle is approximately five
feet
from a water source (sink).

I'm no NECspert but I thought anywhere near water meant GFCIs are preferred
and that if you used them in drier locations, it was no harm/no foul. I got
my near-death lethal, burning skin, couldn't let go shock in my bedroom with
a Dr. Scholl's foot bath and massager. I reached for a swing arm, imitation
Luxo lamp and began to fry. A GFCI would have prevented that little mishap.
Had gravity not intervened, I would have died that day with a
foot-torso-heart-arm pathway for the shock that caused smoke to rise from my
burning feet. For some odd reason, even though I was completely paralyzed,
I still managed to fall out of the chair I was in and that broke my hand's
connection to the metal lamp handle. That's when I went a little GFCI crazy
and began installing them in all the household circuits as I upgraded from 2
wire to grounded service.

The occasional tripping maybe to due to the fridge motor kicking on while
a
toaster or some other device is drawing power. Even a plug being pulled
quickly from a receptacle can arc and cause a trip of the GFCI.
Regardless,
your circuit configuration is not acceptable under the current electrical
codes.

Hmmm. Well, something else was on the same circuit and probably did fire up
at the same time as the fridge. We've been having a lot of high winds and
"power blinks" and there was a small air compressor plugged into the 2nd
outlet of the duplex outlet that serves the fridge that I was using to blow
out the coils. The lower half of the refrigerator duplex outlet was the
nearest free outlet. They could have easily restarted within seconds of
each other.

I can certainly isolate the refrigerator on its own circuit and that seems
to be a prudent thing to do. This could have happened when no one was at
home.

You can buy inexpensive receptacle testers that will test a GFCI and other
receptacles for proper grounding. As long as the receptacle is properly
grounded, short circuits will go to ground and shock hazard will be
minimal.

Got one that had disappeared for nearly a year to reappear at the bottom of
the seasonal lights box. Will try that out today. Did that, and it says
nothing's wrong.

Diagnosing electrical problems without looking at them is difficult as one
cannot determine the quality of the workmanship that went into the initial
wiring of the circuits.

Well, I can assist you a little by describing materials, equipment and
techniques used.

o Metal boxes with screw-down clamps screwed into studs where possible - not
squirmy plastic that depend on the constant "springiness" of the plastic
material over time to hold cables tight,

o 12/2 Romex (why would you ever use 14/2 when wire is cheap and time is
not?),

o screwed, not backstabbed connections,

o outlets wrapped with real 3M electrical tape and not Wal*Mart's 10 rolls
for dollar crap,

o Leviton receptacles, breakers and GFCI's,

o "InSure" push-in wire connectors instead of wing nuts (referenced here by
M. Dufas in an earlier thread) because they are easy to use and inspect (but
not find locally!!):

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodD...-in&l2=in-sure

o Klein made in USA strippers, Triplet tong meter, GFCI tester, the 2008 NEC
pocket guide

o Five profusely illustrated home wiring DIY books that have paid for
themselves about 10 times over because a picture truly is worth 10,000 words
with skills like plumbing and electrical.

o 25 years of watching This Old House. Despite what many people say, there
isn't an episode where I haven't learned how to do at least one thing
better. Tommy Silva is the one I've learned the most from, and Bob Villa
the least. Sometimes it's something as simple as using a new blade every
three or four trim cuts on wallpaper or as complicated as chasing down
bizarre problems with hot water heating.

I only bring this up because just looking at my work in a photograph would
probably tell you about as much as what equipment I use or what questions I
ask does: and that's not enough to determine if my work was really any
good.

You'd have to pull stuff apart to determine true quality and workmanship.
Without close inspection, you couldn't tell whether there were any serious
nicks of the cable where it was stripped. You'd have to remove an outlet
and pull it apart AND tug on it to make sure a backstabbed outlet's claw
hadn't released its grip on the wire or become loose and corroded. Or that
I had stripped enough wire to even make a good connection. (Not really a
problem with my work because I don't backstab.) You'd at least have to
unwrap the electrical tape around the outlet to see if the end bends were
made correctly and were set firmly under the screw. You'd at least have to
twist the screw with a screwdriver to make sure it was tight. You'd have to
tug on all the wires under a wire nut to make sure they weren't making
intermittent contact (not a problem with the InSure connectors - they're
transparent so you can see if the wire's in right and tight) and so on and
so on.

I've been kind of amazed at what I've seen inspectors pass in some of the
houses I've lived in because things "looked neat" and wires weren't wrapped
in masking tape and hanging from rusty nails.

Any electrical work I do is always reviewed by at least a second pair of
eyes before it's ever inspected. That alone caught two or three mistakes
that would definitely have caused problems down the line. Around here once
an inspector thinks you're sloppy, it takes an awful lot to change his mind.
So I do things like making sure the screws on cover plates line up and that
the plates are plumb. I am not sure why, but growing up, my best friend's
dad was a electrician, and he did it that way, so I do too. Same with
wrapping an outlet in electrical tape. Some people say it's old-timer
nonsense, but I figure it can't hurt anything and might even help prevent a
short.

As far as code interpretation, I'll have to check with my local authority
having jurisdiction since his/hers is the only interpretation that matters.
(-:

Good Luck

Thanks. I think the plan is to move the fridge to its own dedicated line
that's still on a GFCI, but without any other loads on it. It's near enough
to the kitchen sink to be a concern and if it still trips, I will replace
it. If it still trips when a new GFCI's in place, I'll have to assume
there's an issue in the refrigerator wiring itself and try to determine
where the fault is. If that fails, and the refrigerator shows no obvious
faults, I'll eliminate the GFCI.

Fifty feet of Romex, another breaker and some fittings will likely be a lot
less costly than a freezer full of thawed-out food. I have an alarm on the
fridge to tell me when the unit has warmed beyond safe limits, but if no
one's in the house, it will just beep patiently while all the food spoils.
So far, the GFCI has NEVER tripped when no one was home. That tends to
support the "two incompatible devices on the same circuit" theory, I think.
The best way to test for that, is as you suggest, isolate the refrigerator
from all other appliances and outlets. Easiest, too!

Thanks for your input.

--
Bobby G.