On Oct 13, 6:38*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
"RicodJour" wrote in message

Agree with John and Bob. I would also say the contractor is not
responsible for this. As others have pointed out, wiring is supposed
to be run far enough back that a finishing nail from molding can't
reach it or else have a metal plate covering it.

Yep. Even if you had a contract, and the contract was any good,
there'd be a clause in there about "latent and concealed conditions".
The contractor doesn't have X-ray vision, and can't determine what is
behind a wall. He has a reasonable expectation to believe that there
aren't wires too close to the surface.

If the contractor was using unnecessarily long nails - say 3" to
attach some trim - then there's some responsibility there, but it's
basically the owner's.

Say WHAT?

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. *If you have a question,
ask it.

R

Your statement that the owner would bear the responsibility for this act
befuddles me. *The fact is that no matter what the location of the wire, the
wire was in good shape before the contractor did whatever he did. *At the
least, he should have offered to open up a small area just to be safe. *He
did not even do that, and gave the person, a layman, advice from an expert
professional that nothing was wrong, and it was safe, which may or may not
be the case. *In my opinion, that was not a professional thing to do, and a
reasonable person would have cause to be concerned.

You are confusing two different issues.
1). The contractor saying, "Don't worry." is a cavalier attitude and
is scary. You'll get no argument from me that the guy behaved badly
after shorting the wire, it certainly is not professional behavior,
and a reasonable person should definitely be concerned in such an
event.
2). The wire being in an unusual location is a "latent and concealed
condition". The Owner did not know about it, the contractor did not
know about it. It is the Owner's house.

Look at it another way. This is how it _should_ have worked.
The contractor is legit, and the homeowner has a signed contract. The
contract has the standard latent and concealed condition clause. The
contractor hits the wire and it shorts out. The contractor stops work
and informs the Owner. The Owner calls in an electrician to open the
wall and fix the wire. You can't have a concealed electrical junction
box, and the wire won't magically grow a foot so you can cut it and
have the required wire length inside the box anyway, so rewiring is in
order (unless everybody is cutting corners). The contractor would
charge the Owner for the delay, unless he's in a good mood or has
other things to work on, and for patching the wall/ceiling the
electrician opened up. Then it's back to installing trim.

That is contracting and that is the textbook way it should work.
Obviously it doesn't always work that way on smaller jobs, with
unlicensed/hack contractors and without contracts. It does not change
the fact that the Owner is on the hook for something the contractor
would not reasonably expect to encounter. Since code requires wiring
to be a certain distance back from the face of the framing, any
typical nail used in attaching trim shouldn't have been long enough to
reach the wire if it were in the correct location.

To the OP: *Call your local Contractor's Board and the Fire Department and
see what they say. *Find out if this man is in fact a licensed contractor.
I believe in your original question, you stated he was. *If he is, they will
mediate, and bring on a fair solution. *If someone else has to fix this and
open it up for inspection, it goes on him or his surety bond. *They may be
interested in the hijinks of this fellow, who may or may not be licensed.
I, like you, would be concerned until I had a final impartial 100% sure
answer. *What you got was not the actions and behavior of a "professional
contractor." *And now you are living under stress from a potentially deadly
situation.

Steve, a retired contractor

I don't know if you should be fanning the flames of paranoia with an
already admitted spooked homeowner. They should be concerned, and
they should get it corrected sooner rather than later, but there's
little benefit in talking about deadly situations.

The OP mentioned getting a guy in to help with the trim. I am using
the word contractor, though he may not be anything more than an
unlicensed handyman, or a "skilled" neighbor. There are few
homeowners who are totally oblivious to licensing issues. The
decision to hire a guy without checking on their qualifications,
licensing and insurance is usually made based on the guy's price being
good, he's available, and, hell, what could go wrong with putting up a
little trim? There's not a lot of liability like he'd fall off the
roof, right? This situation should help clarify the error of such
thinking.

About the comment of using a stud finder as a foolproof method of
finding wires, and scanning everywhere before nailing. As Roger
mentioned, there's a top plate running along the wall, and there are
(toe)nails attaching the stud to the plate. Nobody except a
blithering idiot would run a wire in a location that would require
them to drill through the (toe)nails. More likely the wire was either
set into notches, or just draped or stapled up in the soffit.

R