On Sep 28, 7:01*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

"EXT" wrote:
Are you using "replacement" windows that sit inside the old frame, if it
is
still solid, or are you using "new construction" windows that sit within
the
house frame?

Derby, this is *key*. *EXT knows much more than I do. *So, if anything
conflicts, go with his (grin, presume he just like most presume I am a 'he')

The issue is that I keep hearing that what you see when you look at an
existing casement window - one that is not a replacement window - you
might not be seeing the actual rough opening. Part of the visible trim
and/or opening might actually be part of the window itself. On the
other hand, it might be as simple as measuring just like you would for
a double hung - side to side and up and down, in three different
locations.
What I'm specifically asking about is how do you tell the difference
between a simple "side to side/up and down" measurement of the exposed
opening and the more complicated "the whole frame is part of the
window" measurement.
Is there some way to tell by looking at the existing casement?

Not as far as I know. *BTW, I am not sure why 'replacement window' vs
existing casement window is an issue here because to me, they are the same
thing when it comes to this. *Kinda self trained. *Used to working long ago
on anything from 150 years old, to 20 years old. *Bugged the guys at the
various local hardware places for knowledge which they freely gave once they
realized I was serious. *(Back then, 'women' and especially child females
didnt do stuff like that).

BTW, I am not sure why 'replacement window' vs existing casement
window is an issue here because to me, they are the same thing when it
comes to this.

I guess I'm not explaining this very well, so I'll try again.

When I replaced all the double hung windows in my house, the
measurements were pretty simple. The windows had wooden sashes that
rode up and down in aluminum tracks with springs inside plastic tubes
as "counterweights". It was easy to slip thin strips of material
between the tracks and the interior stops to determine the width
measurement of the rough opening without taking the window out. The
height was even easier since the top and bottom of the rough opening
were exposed when the windows were open. There was no question as to
what was part of the window and what was the rough opening.

Obviously a casement window is different. This a double wooden
casement with a center mullion. The unit appears to have been built
into the rough opening, probably when the house was built. That is
what I meant when I said it is not a replacement window.

When I face the window, I see the trim that is attached to the wall on
both sides and the top, with about an 1/8" reveal of the wood that
makes up the sides and top of the opening itself. i.e. the two side
pieces that face each other and the top piece that faces downward
towards the sill within the window opening itself.

What I don't know is this:

Is the wood that is inside the opening *part of the window itself* or
*part of the rough opening*? In other words, if I removed the trim
from the walls, would I find that the casement window is inside a
frame that has to be removed (resulting in a larger rough opening than
is currently visible) or do the 2 windows, the center mullion and the
hardware come out, leaving the side and top pieces of wood as the
rough opening that my vinyl slider will fit into? Unless the sill is
part of the frame also, it doesn't appear that the pieces in question
are part of a frame, but that's what I'm trying to find out.

If the casement doesn't have a frame that has to come out, then the
trim doesn't have to be removed/repainted/etc. The window is
sandwiched between cabinets and if I don't have to remove the trim or
disturb the wood inside the opening the installation will be as easy
as the double hungs were.

I hope that makes my question clearer.