On Jul 16, 9:19*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 16, 12:22*am, harry k wrote:





On Jul 15, 11:05*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Jul 14, 11:20*pm, harry k wrote:

On Jul 14, 3:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,
*harry k wrote:

On Jul 13, 10:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*harry k wrote:

Nope. *It is strobing. *In some of the old films you can see a wheel
go backwards, slow, forwards. *That is caused by the wheel speed
changing.

Harry K

Have you actually seen the commercials, Harry? I'd be surprised if you
saw them and stuck by your wagon wheel effect hypothesis. In the
screwdriver commercial, it doesn't matter whether you look at the chuck,
the driver bit, or the screw, it's rotating the wrong way, quite clearly
and a very stable rate.

Of course it is an so is every part of it, they are all fixed and
therefore rotate together. *Vary the speed of the drill and you would
see the rotation slow, speed up or even reverse direction.

You must have missed that demonstration in the HS physics course.

Harry K

No, I didn't miss it. HAVE YOU SEEN THE COMMERCIAL? IF SO, do you STILL
think it is the wagon wheel effect ???????- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One more time and I am done. *I DO NOT HAVE TO SEE THE COMMERCIAL..
You have described an everyday, common effect of strobing. *I don't
need to see the sun come up to know that is what happened when some
kook tries to explain daylight by some other method.

Try doing a google on 'stroboscopic effect' - I would be surprised if
you don't find a lot of sources explaining it and even some clips
showing it.

You have been told by several people what it is, that you don't want
to accept it...

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I don't need to see the sun come up to know that is what happened
when some kook tries to explain daylight by some other method."

That's because there is no other explanation for daylight.

However, regardless of the existance of the "common effect of
strobing" there also exists a number of other reasons for the bit to
appear to be rotating backwards, the obvious one being that it
actually is rotating backwards.

There's also the possibility of the film being a "mirror image" of the
actual event.

I'm not claiming that the cause *isn't* the "common effect of
strobing" - although I seriously doubt that in this case it is - I'm
simply pointing out that your argument for not needing to see the
commercial based on the fact that the sun causes daylight is flawed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

True it is "possible" but Occam's razor comes into effect. *So fare
Smitty hasn't produced anything that would obviate the simple
solution.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Occam's razor comes into effect."

If you're going to play the Occam's Razor card, then the strobing
explanation should be the one that is thrown out.

"When you have two competing theories that make exactly the same
predictions, the simpler one is the better."

What's simpler: That the drill is actually running in reverse or that
the strobing effect is the cause?

I submit that the drill actually running in reverse is the simpler
explanation - IFF we are ranking the possible reasons for what we see
in terms of their complexity.

What's simpler: "Press this button and the drill spins one way or the
other." or "The *'stroboscopic effect' *is explained as follows..."

BTW: Smitty Two is not talking about the same commercial - or at least
not the same segment - as I am. The clip I saw was a wood boring bit,
not a drywall screw. I have not been able to find an on-line copy of
the commercial.

BTW-2: I'm not sure if one of my earlier questions has been answered,
so I'll ask it in a slightly different manner.

First, I know that the stroboscopic effect exists; I've seen wheels
"turning backwards", so I'm not questioning the existance of the
"wagon wheel" effect.

That said, let's assume that the perception of the drill turning
backwards *is* caused by the stroboscopic effect. Is the effect
actually captured on film/digital storage or is it just preceived by
the viewer when watching the clip? The reason I ask is that, as I have
mentioned before, when I run my DVR in frame-by-frame mode, it still
appears that the drill and bit is rotating in reverse. If the effect
is captured on film, then obviously we would see it while watching the
commercial. However, if the effect is really just a "perception",
whether in real life or while viewing a commercial, then wouldn't one
have to assume that the fact that it is seen even when viewed frame by
frame means that there is some other explanation?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good point on Occam's razor.

Good questions. Answer is Yes it is captured on _film_. I have been
wondering all day about digital recording though.

Frame by frame, assuming it is captured that way, would of course show
the strobe effect. It is a capture of one instant in a sequence and
thus does not have to played at any given speed to shwo the effect.

Harry K