on 6/12/2009 9:08 AM (ET) JIMMIE wrote the following:
On Jun 11, 8:02 am, willshak wrote:

on 6/11/2009 3:11 AM (ET) wrote the following:






On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

I'd like to see proof of this. The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them.

That's what I meant. I do not have any PEX in my house built in 1984,
but if I were to build another house, it would be with PEX. My son-in
law is a contractor/builder and he built his new house with PEX. My
bathrooms on the second floor take a long time for the hot water to get
to them early in the morning. To take a shower, I turn on the shower
and the sink's hot water valves, and wait until the water gets hot
enough, then turn off the sink and adjust the shower water. My half bath
on the main floor is separated from the rest of the house by a concrete
slab, and is the last fixture on the pipe run. The water to that sink
has to go up through the house and then across the second floor past the
bathrooms up there and then down to the half bath. I waste about a
gallon of water through the hot water faucet until the water gets hot.


Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. Can you insulate PEX? I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

Why not? Probably less cutting for the elbow and tees of copper pipe.




I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line.

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. Pex is not for me. In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed. And
one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen).

Exactly. Broken copper pipes in the winter is a common problem where I
live, especially with the 'Snowbirds' that migrate to Florida in the winter.
Snowbirds = People who have homes both in the North and South. They live
in the North in the Summer and live in the South in the Winter.
Yes, I know that they should keep their empty houses above freezing in
the winter, but many of the pipes are in outside walls, and when you
have long periods of 0 degree and below temps, the standing water in the
pipes can freeze, notwithstanding the temps in the house. Not to mention
power failures from utility wires breaking from ice loads.


Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. By then
the owner knows of the problem. But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. Pex is very similar. Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM

Yep. Everything new is not as good as the old. Right?
I wonder why PEX is allowed when they know it is not as good as copper
pipes.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
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I doubt if the plastic that burst on your neighbor was PEX, most
likely polybutylene, big difference from PEX. Ive seen copper rot out
in 25 years due to the water chemistry. I like Cu where I think a
rigid pipe is called for or where its going to be seen, appearances
counts for something. I suspect the connections in a PEX system will
fail long before the pipe does.

Jimmie


No. The pipes and fittings that failed were not PEX or other
non-metallic materials. My experience with those bursting were way
before PEX was commonly used in home plumbing. As I guestimate the dates
from my life's timeline, it was some period in the 1970s when there was
an extended period where the temps were in the teens (F) or below. And
it wasn't my neighbor. It happened in dozens of homes of strangers in
the area where I used to work, and for which, I had first hand knowledge
by being one of the first on scene.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @