I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

I have a Vanguard MANIBLOC manifold. *

It's 12 years old and no problems, so far. Having seen some recent new
installs, it sure saves time and material. Centrally located in a home
- usually in a laundry room.

*
http://www.vanguard.ca/mbloctech.html

For a new build I would have PEX again.

PEX can be run either way -- either the manifold/home-run system or the
daisy-chain system. I think one reason for the manifold/home-run approach
is that it maintains water better pressre to an individual fixture than a
daisy-chain setup does when another fixture is in use at the same time.

I've been researching PEX for a while now and will be using it soon for the
first time in a remodel that I have going on in a property I own.

Here are a few video links that I thought were helpful:

Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZyVrw4gV5k



Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJMKVGSFc-Y&NR=1



PEXsupply.com - 6 types of PEX connections (time 8:35):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvAzcJpM0k




RJ wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

Oops, the second link should have said "Part 2" (not "Part 1").

Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZyVrw4gV5k

Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 2 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJMKVGSFc-Y&NR=1

PEXsupply.com - 6 types of PEX connections (time 8:35):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvAzcJpM0k



BetaB4 wrote:
PEX can be run either way -- either the manifold/home-run system or
the daisy-chain system. I think one reason for the manifold/home-run
approach is that it maintains water better pressre to an individual
fixture than a daisy-chain setup does when another fixture is in use
at the same time.
I've been researching PEX for a while now and will be using it soon
for the first time in a remodel that I have going on in a property I
own.
Here are a few video links that I thought were helpful:

Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZyVrw4gV5k



Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJMKVGSFc-Y&NR=1



PEXsupply.com - 6 types of PEX connections (time 8:35):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvAzcJpM0k




RJ wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

On Jun 9, 3:17*pm, "RJ" wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

Its my understanding that plastic pipe in general got a bad rep after
the polybutalene fiasco. Even polybutalene isnt that bad if installed
properly. I have it in a 20 year old house and confess I have had two
leaks. Both were the result of poor instalation practice. I replaced
the poly with PEX. After examining the 20 year old pipe and fittings I
found no deteriation of the pipe or fittings. I would of course like
to beat the crap out of the idiot who installed it.

Jimmmie

On Jun 9, 2:17*pm, "RJ" wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

It's simple - They sell more PEX this way...

JK

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain copper pipe installations, where the
main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold", then individual pipe
runs to each faucet.

Our custom built 1998 home in Az had Wirsbo PEX daisychained throughout,
from 1" to 3/4" to half inch.

The only 3/8" were the risers to the faucets. It's done fine for over 10
years.

Our current (2003) place has the manifold system, one for cold, one for hot.
I don't notice any difference.

On Jun 9, 12:17*pm, "RJ" wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

RJ-

You got a lot of great info in the other posts...except Big Jake's
comment.

I've done two installs.....both manifold / "home run" style

I prefer this style....way fewer joints; two per run. One at the
manifold, one at the angle stop.

I suppose the ease of installation is a function of the connection
style chosen.
I went with the expander type, I have a hand expander.

A hand expander, though very easy to use on 1/2" tube, and especially
ease to use when in a comfortable position, it is a bit harder to use
in a crawlspace or attic.
The battery expander is rather pricey but it's VERY easy to use
anywhere when equipped with the auto-rotation head adapter.

The manifold style installation:
maximizes the use of single tubing size
uses more tubing but fewer fittings.
has connections in more convenient / easy to execute locations
allows water to be shutoff on a per fixture (hot or cold) basis
maintains point of use water pressure better

depending on the house / plumbing layout a medium sized house with 2
stacked baths, kitchen & laundry requires about 150 ft of hot, 200 ft
of cold.
a medium ranch about the same

if you do the main & branch routine..you;ve got to use varying tube
size and connections / fittings all over the place.

Even if you use 1/2 the tubing by going to a main & branch system
you'll save ~200 ft of tube but use larger & larger fittings...the
tubing saved is going to be about $60.

IMO that worth the extra time & hassle to do main & branch....manifold
is quick & easy; fewer opportunities for mistakes

cheers
Bob

On Jun 9, 10:09*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
if it was given to me free. *Give me REAL plumbing or none at all.
Copper is more costly, but it's top of the line and will outlast any
plastic crap. *I'd even go back to galvanized steel before plastic
garbage plumbing. *And while some will tell you that PEX is MUCH
cheaper, they're full of ****. *The PEX pipe itself is cheaper, but
those manifolds are very costly and all the pex fittings are very
high, and then you need to spend another hundred bucks for the special
tools. *

And if your wife likes to hang coat hangers on pipes, prepare for a
disaster the first time she hangs it on pex.

PEX is a frikkin hose, it's NOT plumbing !!!
If I wanted a damn hose for plumbing, I'd just connect a damn garden
hose from the meter to the tub and toilet.

Copper is a great material and in most instances very good for
potable water systems.

But for a re-pipe of a classic old home PEX is a better choice, allows
the re-pipe to be done with less damage to the house.

Some water conditions favor PEX over copper.

In some areas copper potable water systems contribute to water
pollution; build up of copper in the environment.

The savings of PEX vs copper is not the material, it's the labor
savings .....way fewer connections & connections that can be made
faster than cutting & cleaning the copper tube.

It's not hose......and your experience with PEX is?


cheers
Bob

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??


The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
if it was given to me free. Give me REAL plumbing or none at all

I suppose you need a stable rather than a garage also.

On Jun 10, 8:29�am, "gilb" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? �Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX �??

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
if it was given to me free. �Give me REAL plumbing or none at all

I suppose you need a stable rather than a garage also.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nah he is driving his model A

He has good points, and I have copper.

But prefer homeruns to everything

In article ,
willshak wrote:

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??


The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

The home run system could have those advantages, if the installer isn't
a moron. Whoever plumbed the remodel I bought put the manifold in the
attic, about as far away from the water heater as possible.

On Jun 10, 9:59*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*willshak wrote:
on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

The home run system could have those advantages, if the installer isn't
a moron. Whoever plumbed the remodel I bought put the manifold in the
attic, about as far away from the water heater as possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The MORON factor is always an issue. I found that even polybutylene
holds up well if installed correctly.

I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
I did the basement in copper and transistioned to PEX from there. The
PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:

I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
I did the basement in copper and transistioned to PEX from there. The
PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.


I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. I may be doing
something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
etc. I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
system or a clamping system.

I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
existing copper.

Thanks.

BetaB4 wrote:
called now) and either a cromping system or a clamping system.

Oops, that should be "crimping" not "cromping".

On Jun 10, 11:42*am, "BetaB4" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:

I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
I did the basement in copper and transistioned to *PEX from there. The
PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.

I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. *I may be doing
something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
etc. *I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
system or a clamping system.

I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
existing copper.

Thanks.

Sorry I made it sound like I actually did the plumbing. I didnt
realise that until I reread my own post.I bought a house that was
partially finished and had the work done. This mixed Cu PEX scheme had
already been started before I bought the unfinished house. The only
change I wanted was for the PEX to terminate in copper. I hate floppy
mounted cutoff valves at the toilets and sinks. Im not sure what type
connections were used but they were not crimp on metal. Its the kind
where the tubing is stretched and then slipped over a barbed
connector. Sorry but I dont know the trade names.Plan is to put it on
the market but my wife is talking about moving into it and selling our
current home.. Financially either plan would work out about the same.

Jimmie

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:42:09 -0400, "BetaB4"
wrote:

JIMMIE wrote:

I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
I did the basement in copper and transistioned to PEX from there. The
PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.


I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. I may be doing
something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
etc. I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
system or a clamping system.

I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
existing copper.

Thanks.


Some samples in this PDF file - scroll down to Brass PEX fittings.

http://www.pexconnection.com/PEX%20C...LOG%202004.pdf

http://www.pexconnection.com/

If you have a local Ferguson plumbing supply, they are a great help.
http://www.ferguson.com/

Also, Youtube has plenty of videos - search PEX (tubing/install/DIY)

On Jun 10, 8:42*am, "BetaB4" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:

I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
I did the basement in copper and transistioned to *PEX from there. The
PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.

I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. *I may be doing
something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
etc. *I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
system or a clamping system.

I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
existing copper.

Thanks.

I highly recommend the WIrsbo /Uponor expander system...ProPEX brass
fittings

I got all the stuff I needed from PEXsupply.com

if you have a crawlspace in which to work & a convenient / logical
place for your manifolds (like garage or basement or place near the
water heater)

homerun system makes good sense

At the angle stops I made up some custom copper drop ear / rear mount
elbow with type L bullets ...they provided more secure mounting for
the PEX & the angle stops

you could also use these with copper male adapters sweated to bullets
http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Drop-Ear-Elbows-486000


http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Expa...ittings-363000

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copper-Manifolds-519000

PEXsupply.com seems to have the best website & prices online....free
shipping for large orders


cheers
Bob

I could be convinced to part with my hand expander for a while






transition copper to PEX

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copp...Adapters-62000

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:03:39 -0700 (PDT), fftt
wrote:

I highly recommend the WIrsbo /Uponor expander system...ProPEX brass
fittings

In some old threads here, there was discussion about faulty brass
connectors. It "may" have been Zurn products. When made they contained
to much Zinc and leaked, causing law suits.

Search PEX and Law Suits. Las Vegas is one example of a retirement
village having serious home damage from faulty brass fittings.

On Jun 10, 1:09*am, wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
if it was given to me free. *Give me REAL plumbing or none at all.
Copper is more costly, but it's top of the line and will outlast any
plastic crap. *I'd even go back to galvanized steel before plastic
garbage plumbing. *And while some will tell you that PEX is MUCH
cheaper, they're full of ****. *The PEX pipe itself is cheaper, but
those manifolds are very costly and all the pex fittings are very
high, and then you need to spend another hundred bucks for the special
tools. *

And if your wife likes to hang coat hangers on pipes, prepare for a
disaster the first time she hangs it on pex.

PEX is a frikkin hose, it's NOT plumbing !!!
If I wanted a damn hose for plumbing, I'd just connect a damn garden
hose from the meter to the tub and toilet.

And here I thought Frontier Gibberish was a dead language! Well done!

R

On Jun 10, 11:42*am, "BetaB4" wrote:

I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. *I may be doing
something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
etc. *I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
system or a clamping system.

I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
existing copper.

Sharkbite fittings by Cash Acme.

R

On Jun 10, 8:43*am, bob haller wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:29 am, "gilb" wrote:
wrote in message
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
if it was given to me free. Give me REAL plumbing or none at all

I suppose you need a stable rather than a garage also.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nah he is driving his model A

He has good points, and I have copper.

Umm, help me out here. What are the good points Invalid made?

R

On Jun 10, 5:54*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:43*am, bob haller wrote:



On Jun 10, 8:29 am, "gilb" wrote:
wrote in message
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "RJ" wrote:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
if it was given to me free. Give me REAL plumbing or none at all

I suppose you need a stable rather than a garage also.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nah he is driving his model A

He has good points, and I have copper.

Umm, help me out here. *What are the good points Invalid made?

R


What are the good points Invalid made?

here's my best guess

Copper is more costly
those manifolds are very costly

I used to have a video clip of Johny Carson, and the Caper
of the Copper Clappers. Anyone else seen that?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Copper is more costly, but it's top of the line and will
outlast any
plastic crap. I'd even go back to galvanized steel before
plastic

on 6/11/2009 3:11 AM (ET) wrote the following:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:


on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??


The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).


I'd like to see proof of this. The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them.

That's what I meant. I do not have any PEX in my house built in 1984,
but if I were to build another house, it would be with PEX. My son-in
law is a contractor/builder and he built his new house with PEX. My
bathrooms on the second floor take a long time for the hot water to get
to them early in the morning. To take a shower, I turn on the shower
and the sink's hot water valves, and wait until the water gets hot
enough, then turn off the sink and adjust the shower water. My half bath
on the main floor is separated from the rest of the house by a concrete
slab, and is the last fixture on the pipe run. The water to that sink
has to go up through the house and then across the second floor past the
bathrooms up there and then down to the half bath. I waste about a
gallon of water through the hot water faucet until the water gets hot.

Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. Can you insulate PEX? I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

Why not? Probably less cutting for the elbow and tees of copper pipe.
I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line.

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. Pex is not for me. In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed. And
one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen).
Exactly. Broken copper pipes in the winter is a common problem where I
live, especially with the 'Snowbirds' that migrate to Florida in the winter.
Snowbirds = People who have homes both in the North and South. They live
in the North in the Summer and live in the South in the Winter.
Yes, I know that they should keep their empty houses above freezing in
the winter, but many of the pipes are in outside walls, and when you
have long periods of 0 degree and below temps, the standing water in the
pipes can freeze, notwithstanding the temps in the house. Not to mention
power failures from utility wires breaking from ice loads.

Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. By then
the owner knows of the problem. But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. Pex is very similar. Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM

Yep. Everything new is not as good as the old. Right?
I wonder why PEX is allowed when they know it is not as good as copper
pipes.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

I'd like to see proof of this. The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them. Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. Can you insulate PEX? I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line.

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. Pex is not for me. In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed.


I think you might have a long wait. Cross linked polyethylene is robust
stuff and has been in use now for 50 years without what you are
imagining happening.

And
one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen). Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. By then
the owner knows of the problem. But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. Pex is very similar. Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM

On Jun 11, 8:05�am, George wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? �Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX �??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

I'd like to see proof of this. �The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them. �Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. �You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. �Can you insulate PEX? �I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. �I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. �I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. �I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. �In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). �I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. �And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line. �

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. �I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. �I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. �To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. �Pex is not for me. �In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed.

I think you might have a long wait. Cross linked polyethylene is robust
stuff and has been in use now for 50 years without what you are
imagining happening.

� And



one final thought. �I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen). �Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. �By then
the owner knows of the problem. �But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. �I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. �Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. �Pex is very similar. �Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pex tends to expand when frozen and not leak later. thats a definite
positive.

it can be insulated but its kinda self insulating sionce its plastic
and doesnt conduct heat and cold nearly as well as metal

Thanks. I think that what I am going to end up using. I did a ton of
research on this recently, including trying to find plumbing supply places
in my area who stock and sell Wirsbo/Uponor PEX products. Strangely, no
plumbing supply places in my area stock and sell it (I am in Southern New
Jersey, Camden County). One plumbing supply place nearby can get it in one
day from their Washington warehouse.

I know I can buy the products from http://www.pexsupply.com , but I wanted
to be sure I can also get them at a supplier nearby so that if I am in the
middle of the job and I need something I don't have to order it online and
wait for it to be shipped to me.

fftt wrote:

I highly recommend the WIrsbo /Uponor expander system...ProPEX brass
fittings

I got all the stuff I needed from PEXsupply.com

if you have a crawlspace in which to work & a convenient / logical
place for your manifolds (like garage or basement or place near the
water heater)

homerun system makes good sense

At the angle stops I made up some custom copper drop ear / rear mount
elbow with type L bullets ...they provided more secure mounting for
the PEX & the angle stops

you could also use these with copper male adapters sweated to bullets
http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Drop-Ear-Elbows-486000


http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Expa...ittings-363000

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copper-Manifolds-519000

PEXsupply.com seems to have the best website & prices online....free
shipping for large orders


cheers
Bob

I could be convinced to part with my hand expander for a while






transition copper to PEX

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copp...Adapters-62000

wrote:

1. Pex is very similar. Its just a matter of time till they begin
bursting.
2. The earth is FLAT

On Jun 11, 12:11*am, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:



on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

I'd like to see proof of this. *The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them. *Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. *You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. *Can you insulate PEX? *I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. *I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. *I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. *I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. *In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). *I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. *And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line. *

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. *I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. *I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. *To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. *Pex is not for me. *In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed. *And
one final thought. *I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen). *Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. *By then
the owner knows of the problem. *But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. *I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. *Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. *Pex is very similar. *Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM

LM-

Use what you want. Pex is not for me.

that's fair, your opinion, your right

In a few years people will find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates,

and you are basing this prediction on? you vast technical
knowledge? or personal experiience? your crystal ball?

PEX has been in use all over the US for YEARS......where are the
failure stories

plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. yes they do

I saw this happen to a neighbor, and did thousands of dollars damage. me too

Those supply pipes were banned, if true, good action
but there are millions still in use. only because people are ill-informed,

Pex is very similar. Wrong, different material

Its just a matter of time till they begin bursting. another opinion without basis?

sorry to be so harsh but most of your statements are without basis

cheers
Bob

On Jun 11, 7:55*am, "BetaB4" wrote:
Thanks. *I think that what I am going to end up using. *I did a ton of
research on this recently, including trying to find plumbing supply places
in my area who stock and sell Wirsbo/Uponor PEX products. *Strangely, no
plumbing supply places in my area stock and sell it (I am in Southern New
Jersey, Camden County). *One plumbing supply place nearby can get it in one
day from their Washington warehouse.

I know I can buy the products fromhttp://www.pexsupply.com, but I wanted
to be sure I can also get them at a supplier nearby so that if I am in the
middle of the job and I need something I don't have to order it online and
wait for it to be shipped to me.

fftt wrote:

I highly recommend the WIrsbo /Uponor *expander system...ProPEX brass
fittings

I got all the stuff I needed from * PEXsupply.com

if you have a crawlspace in which to work & a convenient / logical
place for your manifolds (like garage or basement or place near the
water heater)

homerun system makes good sense

At the angle stops I made up some custom copper drop ear / rear mount
elbow with type L bullets ...they provided more secure mounting for
the PEX & the angle stops

you could also use these with copper male adapters sweated to bullets
http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Drop-Ear-Elbows-486000

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Expa...ittings-363000

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copper-Manifolds-519000

PEXsupply.com seems to have the best website & prices online....free
shipping for large orders

cheers
Bob

I could be convinced to part with my hand expander for a while

transition copper to PEX

http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copp...Adapters-62000


If you do the home run system with a manifold (I recommend at least
one spare valve) and work out the details at the angle
stops.......you'll have a very good idea of the parts you need. Buy
a few spares & you'll be fine.

cheers
Bob

On Jun 11, 8:02*am, willshak wrote:
on 6/11/2009 3:11 AM (ET) wrote the following:





On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

I'd like to see proof of this. *The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them. *

That's what I meant. I do not have any PEX in my house built in 1984,
but if I were to build another house, it would be with PEX. My son-in
law is a contractor/builder and he built his new house with PEX. My
bathrooms on the second floor take a long time for the hot water to get
to them early in the morning. *To take a shower, I turn on the shower
and the sink's hot water valves, and wait until the water gets hot
enough, then turn off the sink and adjust the shower water. My half bath
on the main floor is separated from the rest of the house by a concrete
slab, and is the last fixture on the pipe run. The water to that sink
has to go up through the house and then across the second floor past the
bathrooms up there and then down to the half bath. I waste about a *
gallon of water through the hot water faucet until the water gets hot.

Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. *You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. *Can you insulate PEX? *I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

Why not? *Probably less cutting for the elbow and tees of copper pipe.



I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. *I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. *I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. *I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. *In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). *I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. *And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line. *

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. *I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. *I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. *To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. *Pex is not for me. *In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed. *And
one final thought. *I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen). *

Exactly. Broken copper pipes in the winter is a common problem where I
live, especially with the 'Snowbirds' that migrate to Florida in the winter.
Snowbirds = People who have homes both in the North and South. They live
in the North in the Summer and live in the South in the Winter.
Yes, I know that they should keep their empty houses above freezing in
the winter, but many of the pipes are in outside walls, and when you
have long periods of 0 degree and below temps, the standing water in the
pipes can freeze, notwithstanding the temps in the house. Not to mention
power failures from utility wires breaking from ice loads.

Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. *By then
the owner knows of the problem. *But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. *I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. *Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. *Pex is very similar. *Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM

Yep. Everything new is not as good as the old. Right?
I wonder why PEX is allowed when they know it is not as good as copper
pipes.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I doubt if the plastic that burst on your neighbor was PEX, most
likely polybutylene, big difference from PEX. Ive seen copper rot out
in 25 years due to the water chemistry. I like Cu where I think a
rigid pipe is called for or where its going to be seen, appearances
counts for something. I suspect the connections in a PEX system will
fail long before the pipe does.

Jimmie

On Jun 9, 12:17*pm, "RJ" wrote:
I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

I opted for Wiersbo (sp?) PEX at a remote cabin in WA state. The
winter temps are very cold are we are absent for extended periods of
time.
I had the advantages of a one level cabin with free access to an
unfinished "basement" beneath. Made the install and routing simple.
The basement can, however, freeze up even when the cabin is occupied,
which made the PEX decision easy.

I used the daisy chain method, 3/4" to 1/2" to local faucet
connections. I also used the crimp-style connecting collars, which
require a proprietary tool. I found it to be a reasonable investment
($125 if I recall). I have loaned it to several friends doing their
own installations, and garnered a few favors in return - a win/win
situation!

For a homeowner job, it was pretty good. I had to replace two
connections due to user error until I got the tricks down. All other
connections were solid, and after many freeze/thaw cycles (drained
lines) no issues have arisen.

To address the OP's question directly. I suspect that a more complex
installation might merit a manifold approach, while installation as
described would suffice for simpler jobs.

On Jun 9, 2:51*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Jun 9, 3:17*pm, "RJ" wrote:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? *Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX *??

Its my understanding that plastic pipe in general got a bad rep after
the polybutalene fiasco. Even polybutalene isnt that bad if installed
properly. I have it in a 20 year old house and confess I have had two
leaks. Both were the result of poor instalation practice. I replaced
the poly with PEX. After examining the 20 year old pipe and fittings I
found no deteriation of the pipe or fittings. I would of course like
to beat the crap out of the idiot who installed it.

Jimmmie

Isn't Pex a "cross linked polyethylene"?

on 6/12/2009 1:06 PM (ET) gwandsh wrote the following:
On Jun 9, 2:51 pm, JIMMIE wrote:

On Jun 9, 3:17 pm, "RJ" wrote:


I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

Its my understanding that plastic pipe in general got a bad rep after
the polybutalene fiasco. Even polybutalene isnt that bad if installed
properly. I have it in a 20 year old house and confess I have had two
leaks. Both were the result of poor instalation practice. I replaced
the poly with PEX. After examining the 20 year old pipe and fittings I
found no deteriation of the pipe or fittings. I would of course like
to beat the crap out of the idiot who installed it.

Jimmmie


Isn't Pex a "cross linked polyethylene"?

Yes PE = PolyEthylene. X = crosslinked.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:09:56 -0700, "Rudy"
wrote:


wrote:

1. Pex is very similar. Its just a matter of time till they begin
bursting.
2. The earth is FLAT


The earth is NOT flat. At least, not in my backyard. And, I've tried
to make it so.

on 6/12/2009 9:08 AM (ET) JIMMIE wrote the following:
On Jun 11, 8:02 am, willshak wrote:

on 6/11/2009 3:11 AM (ET) wrote the following:






On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) RJ wrote the following:

I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.

I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".

The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.

Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??

The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).

I'd like to see proof of this. The hot water does not go thru other
fixtures, the pipes just go past them.

That's what I meant. I do not have any PEX in my house built in 1984,
but if I were to build another house, it would be with PEX. My son-in
law is a contractor/builder and he built his new house with PEX. My
bathrooms on the second floor take a long time for the hot water to get
to them early in the morning. To take a shower, I turn on the shower
and the sink's hot water valves, and wait until the water gets hot
enough, then turn off the sink and adjust the shower water. My half bath
on the main floor is separated from the rest of the house by a concrete
slab, and is the last fixture on the pipe run. The water to that sink
has to go up through the house and then across the second floor past the
bathrooms up there and then down to the half bath. I waste about a
gallon of water through the hot water faucet until the water gets hot.


Then comes the issue of
insulating the pipes. You can put insulation on copper or other
metallic pipe. Can you insulate PEX? I'm not saying you can or can
not do it, I dont know????

Why not? Probably less cutting for the elbow and tees of copper pipe.




I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. I was not
going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
would install it in my own house. I used the snap together connectors
that cost almost $10 for a tee. I was not impressed in the least with
the stuff. In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
(looks like a hose hung across rafters). I would not trust those snap
together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. And there was no
manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line.

I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
but that's not a problem in most places. I'd probably use CPVC in
those instances. I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
looks like pipe. To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
under the trailer skirting.

Use what you want. Pex is not for me. In a few years people will
find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed. And
one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
just breaking or bursting (except when frozen).

Exactly. Broken copper pipes in the winter is a common problem where I
live, especially with the 'Snowbirds' that migrate to Florida in the winter.
Snowbirds = People who have homes both in the North and South. They live
in the North in the Summer and live in the South in the Winter.
Yes, I know that they should keep their empty houses above freezing in
the winter, but many of the pipes are in outside walls, and when you
have long periods of 0 degree and below temps, the standing water in the
pipes can freeze, notwithstanding the temps in the house. Not to mention
power failures from utility wires breaking from ice loads.


Metallic pipes leak
from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. By then
the owner knows of the problem. But those plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. I saw this happen to a neighbor,
and did thousands of dollars damage. Those supply pipes were banned,
but there are millions still in use. Pex is very similar. Its just a
matter of time till they begin bursting.

LM

Yep. Everything new is not as good as the old. Right?
I wonder why PEX is allowed when they know it is not as good as copper
pipes.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
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I doubt if the plastic that burst on your neighbor was PEX, most
likely polybutylene, big difference from PEX. Ive seen copper rot out
in 25 years due to the water chemistry. I like Cu where I think a
rigid pipe is called for or where its going to be seen, appearances
counts for something. I suspect the connections in a PEX system will
fail long before the pipe does.

Jimmie


No. The pipes and fittings that failed were not PEX or other
non-metallic materials. My experience with those bursting were way
before PEX was commonly used in home plumbing. As I guestimate the dates
from my life's timeline, it was some period in the 1970s when there was
an extended period where the temps were in the teens (F) or below. And
it wasn't my neighbor. It happened in dozens of homes of strangers in
the area where I used to work, and for which, I had first hand knowledge
by being one of the first on scene.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @