westom wrote:
On May 3, 7:16 pm, wrote:
OMG! You are soooo confused dude. YOU are the one that claimed
that all appliances and electronics already had surge protection which
negated the need for plug-ins.

Great responses trader.


Are you so technically ignorant as to use silly emotion for your
reasoning?

Are you so technically ignorant as to use religious belief for your
reasoning?

Constantly posted was this: all appliances contain surge
protection.

Never posted was anyone who agreed with w that "all appliances contain
surge protection".

Posted in other newsgroups - a lot of equipment has *no* surge protection.

That means surge protection without MOVs.

Proved false by trader.

You claim all appliances contain MOVs.

w is so confused.
trader said *some* appliances have MOVs.

All appliances contain protection (with or without
MOVs).

Apparently it is another matter of religious belief.

One properly
earthed 'whole house' protector with a short connection to single
point earth ground.

Repeating from the NIST guide:
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be
sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances
[electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected
to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some
kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be
NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the
service entrance is useless."

Only repeating what trader has read repeatedly.

Only repeating what w has read (and ignored) repeatedly.

Meanwhile trader's posts remain irrelevant to what others ask. They
have two wire circuits. trader recommends safety violations - use
three wire power strips on two wire circuits.

As trader said "You are as confused about this as everything else. The
OP never asked about protecting appliances or anything else. He just
asked about how to ground outlets that were on a 2 wire circuit above a
slab."

They asked for a solution to two wire circuits?

Nope. Nobody asked that.

A protector is only as effective as its earth
ground

Religious belief can be so debilitating..

Still missing - a link to anyone who agrees with w that plug-in
suppressors do NOT work.

Still never answered - simple questions:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the
consumer install" a multiport plug-in suppressor?
- How would a service panel suppressor provide any protection in the
IEEE example, pdf page 42?
- Why does the IEEE guide say for distant service points "the only
effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport
[plug-in] protector"?
- Why did Martzloff say in his paper "One solution. illustrated in this
paper, is the insertion of a properly designed [multiport plug-in surge
suppressor]"?
- Why do your "responsible manufacturers" make plug-in suppressors?
- Why does "responsible" manufacturer SquareD says "electronic
equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in
[suppressors] at the point of use"?
- Where is a source that says protection is "inside every appliance"?
- How do you protect airplanes from direct lightning strikes? Do they
drag an earthing chain?

And (with some overlap):
1 - Do appliances and electronics typically have some built-in surge
protection, eg MOVs? Yes or no.
2 - If the answer to 1 is yes, which we all know to be the case, then
how can that surge protection work without a direct earth ground?
3 - How can aircraft be protected from surges, caused by lightning or
static in the air, since they have no direct earth ground?

For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

--
bud--