On May 3, 4:02 pm, westom wrote:
On May 3, 9:42 am, wrote:
Bullcrap X 2.
http://www.appliancedesign.com/CDA/A.../BNP_GUID_9-5-...
Since MOVs inside appliances are so effective, then why spend $25 or
$150 for power strip protectors? According to trader, all appliances
are completely protected. Anything that a power strip would do is
already inside every appliance. Why waste $25 or $150 when it already
exists inside the appliance?
OMG! You are soooo confused dude. YOU are the one that claimed
that all appliances and electronics already had surge protection which
negated the need for plug-ins.
Reality: internal protection has long been required in all
appliances - routine even without MOVs. If a power strip protector
did anything effective, those ten cent MOVs inside every appliance
means complete protection.
Now you're contradicting yourself again. A few posts back, you
claimed appliances didn't have MOVs. And you continue to ignore the
15 ft elephant in the room. Which is regardless of exactly how surge
protection inside an appliance is accomplished, how is that possible
given your continued position that surge protection is impossible
without a direct earth ground? Only way for that to be possible is
for all these appliances to come with their own built-in earth ground.
Why spend an additional $25 or $150 per
appliance to enrich bud? Why spend massively on a magic strip that
does not even claim protection in its numeric specs? trader says no
appliance needs power strip protectors because that protection is
already inside every appliance.
No Tom, anyone who has been following your regular rants knows it was
YOU who made that claim, not I. But let me answer your question.
Personally, I'd rather have a surge dealt with by the MOVs inside the
$20 plug-in surge protector, rather than rely on the MOVs inside the
$2000 TV. Their capacity is not unlimited and they are known to
sometimes fail. I'd rather replace a $20 surge protector than have
someone dig into the guts of my $2000 TV that stopped working. How
about you?
So that protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed, earth
(divert, connect, bond, shunt) a destructive surge before it can enter
the building. That means $1 per protected appliance for one 'whole
house' protector. Spend massively less for solution used everywhere
that damage cannot happen. That solution means every two wire and
three wire circuit has the best protection. That means no power strip
protectors that also create 'scary pictures' (house fires). trader
can only agree. trader says anything that a power strip protector
might do is already inside all appliances.
Only Tom says that plug-ins offer no protection or actually cause
damage. Everyone else, which would include the IEEE, NIST, major
electrical equipment manufacturers, eg Siemens, say they do work and
should be used as part of a surge protection plan.
OP asked about protecting appliances on two wire circuits.
You are as confused about this as everything else. The OP never asked
about protecting appliances or anything else. He just asked about how
to ground outlets that were on a 2 wire circuit above a slab.
Two wire
circuit mean three wire power strip protectors cannot be used - would
violate safety standards. bud forgets to mention that. It would
harm his profits. trader says anything that a power strip would
accomplish is already inside every appliance.
Again, I never said any such thing. I SAID THAT YOU SAID IT, which
of course you did many times in various threads.
Every responsible
technical source says a protector can only divert surges - that energy
harmlessly absorbed in earth.
So that protection already inside every appliance is not
overwhelmed, simply upgrade earthing (ie 'less than 10 feet', no sharp
bends, separated from other wires, etc) and install one 'whole house'
protector. A device selling in Lowes for less than $50. Now every
two wire and three wire circuit has the best protection. Has
protection also required everywhere damage cannot happen (ie every
telco CO everywhere in the world). How do telcos connected to
overhead wires all over town not suffer damage? They waste no money
on bud's products AND they earth 'whole house' protectors.
Since you dragged Telecom into it again, please read the reference I
provided from Siemens, which you chose to ignore. In addition to
making all kinds of surge protection products, including the whole
house type, they are a major telecom manufacturer. And they also build
everything from appliances to power plant equipment They clearly say
that plug-in protectors can and should be used as part of a surge
protection plan.
N8N asked how to determine if earthing was properly installed.
Those who promote myths and post insults could not bother to answer
N8N. bud would have him us three wire power strips on two wire
circuits - a safety threat. N8N should install a new post 1990
earthing system if his earthing cannot be visually inspected. If
using two wire circuits, then existing earthing was probably
insufficient anyway - would not meet post 1990 code requirements.
Any protection inside an appliance maybe overwhelmed by the
typically destructive surge. Earth that surge (one 'whole house'
protector) so that protection inside every appliance remains intact -
is not overwhelmed. A solution that even sells in Lowes for less
than $50. A solution that probably requires N8N to upgrade his
earthing. A solution that costs tens or 100 times less money than
what bud promotes. A protector is only as effective as its earth
ground - as was well understood even 100 years ago.
So, once again, some simple questions:
1 - Do appliances and electronics typically have some built-in surge
protection, eg MOVs? Yes or no.
2 - If the answer to 1 is yes, which we all know to be the case, then
how can that surge protection work without a direct earth ground?
3 - How can aircraft be protected from surges, caused by lightning or
static in the air, since they have no direct earth ground?