On Mar 25, 6:33*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Dave wrote:
On 3/25/2009 09:24 N8N wrote:
Lots of ground clearance and suspension articulation (required for
rock crawling) make for a tippy vehicle, period. *That's why they make
roll cages. *If you don't want such a vehicle, don't buy it - and I
don't mean that in a snippy way - but CR had no business knocking a
primarily off-road vehicle for behaving like one. *They CERTAINLY
didn't have any business forcing it to tip over so they could get a
story out of it. *I'm surprised that Suzuki settled the lawsuit,
actually - I'd have tried my damndest to nail CR to the wall.
Now if CR had simply stated "Jeeps, Suzuki Samurais, etc. are designed
as off road vehicles and as such may be less safe than traditional
passenger cars in high speed on-road maneuvers" that would have been a
true statement, and one that needed to be made back in the early days
of the SUV craze. *But CR *deliberately made* the Samurai tip over
when it didn't tip as they expected in the first run of their handling
test. *That's inexcusable.
http://www.junkscience.com/consumer/...r_lat0923.html
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Suzuki...nst+Consumer+R....
Sadly, most of what comes up on a web search *today* is articles
glossing over the issues and stating that the lawsuit was settled.
However, I remember the circumstances of the suit well, and it was as
I said - CR had initially set up a handling course with tight corners
and ran the vehicles through them at a certain speed. *When none
tipped, they picked the Suzuki, and ran it through at a *higher* speed
and then when it went up on two wheels published an article deeming it
"unacceptable."
nate
I don't see anything in either of these articles that supports the claim
that CU's altered their tests to "force" a rollover or that it was even
different from the tests they used on other similar vehicles.
I know this, and I a) am having a hard time finding the documentation
and b) don't really care enough to go find it.
I do remember watching a documentary about the issue and they definitely
stated that a) CR increased the speed of the maneuverability test above
that of the initial spec until they got the Samurai up on two wheels and
b) someone high up in CR was alleged to have instructed the test crew to
do whatever they needed to do to get a near-rollover, as they needed a
big story.
The maneuvers many have been stunt-like or unlikely to occur in normal
driving conditions, but if they are comparing apples to apples using the
same test on both, I don't see they did anything wrong.
see above...
It's been 20 years now and my memory is foggy, but I also seem to recall
there was a 60 Minutes (or maybe 20/20 or some other show like that)
that did a similar story and their findings supported that of CU - the
Samuari performed less satisfactorily than the other similar vehicles in
the same battery of tests.
"similar vehicles?" *There really aren't any, save for the Jeep
CJ/Wrangler and the old, original-style Toyota FJ. *I am not aware of
any major differences in handling, although obviously the Samurai was
the cheaper, lighter imitator of the other two.
Oh, and BTW, rather than pay money to CR I did stop at the public
library on the way home from work, and actually found the most recent
issue where they did a refrigerator comparison test. *They picked an LG
as the "best buy" in the bottom-freezer category, which says to me that
their credibility hasn't improved any from my preconceived notions.
nate
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Perhaps I can help you out. I also recall some of the details of what
was alleged that CR did back then and my recollection is similar to
Nate's. Here's a good report that covers some of the evidence behind
the lawsuit and what CR is alleged to have done with the Samurai:
http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-re...sumer-reports/
It says the Samurai was put through the standard test CR had used for
15 years to simulate an emergency avoidance 37 times and it did not
roll over despite being driven at a HIGHER speed than other vehicles
tested. One of their testers gave the Samurai CU's highest
stability rating, saying "it corrects quickly and responds well."
It goes on to say, that at that point, CR management ordered them to
find a way to roll the car.....