On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:09:30 -0500, Wes wrote:

(Edward A. Falk) wrote:

Amen to that. Fuel should be taxed at *least* enough to pay the costs
of maintaining the roads and all the other collective costs of automobiles.
It already is, at least as far as the roads go. The problem is
that much of the funds are diverted to other purposes such as
building boat ramps and at the state level transferred into the
"general funds."

My understanding is that the taxpayers subsidize private cars to the tune
of $3000-5000 per year per car. That just sounds like bad economic and
environmental policy to me.


How many taxpayers do not own private cars?

Now explain the math to me.

Wes
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This rapidly gets *VERY* complicated, and is one of the basic
reasons the "free market" is having such problems of late, namely
that it is from difficult to impossible to determine the true
cost of an item or activity. In many cases if the consumer was
aware what a particular activity or item would cost them in
total, they would never purchase it.

The 3-5 k$ figure is of necessity an estimate, and derives from
many sources. Mainly this is in the form of taxes that are
avoided/evaded and "externalized costs" which the car companies
and others should pay, but have managed to foist off on others,
particularly the government, rather than any actual government
subsidy check. The individual and small business taxpayer must
make up the shortfall.

In many cases the auto manufacturers have received special
governmental financing and tax legislation amounting to 100K$ and
up per employee for the location and continued operation in an
area. This is upped still farther when special tax increment
financing districts are created so that costs of necessary
infrastructure improvements such as sewers, roads, utilities,
etc. constructed for their use are considered as taxes, in lieu
of actual cash payments to the governmental unit. Additionally,
by shifting retiree medical care to Medicaid, the automobile
companies are saving [or more precisely "cost avoiding"] billions
of dollars per year at tax payer expense.

In contrast to individuals, interest is tax deductible for most
corporations.

More indirectly, the petroleum companies that supply the vehicle
fuel also receive huge tax breaks in the form of depletion
allowances, "free" or very low cost oil pumped from publicly
owned land, and special tax treatment, for example allowing the
companies to offset much of the cost of crude oil imported from
overseas against their US taxes, because the exporting country,
apparently in collusion with the oil companies, raised their
taxes rather than increasing their royalties on oil. In most
cases the domestic refineries also receive huge tax breaks on
their local property taxes, compared to the normal property tax
rates and fees. A very considerable amount of "transfer pricing"
also occurs where profits are shifted to low/no tax
jurisdictions.

The construction/maintaince of roads is another very expensive
area, with some new express ways in California now costing more
than 1 million dollars *PER INCH* to construct.

When environmental damage and worker safety are included, the
costs may well be [far] in excess of 5k$. For example the rate
of cancer is much higher in refinery workers and people living in
close proximity than the general population, and their
treatement/premature deaths result in a huge expense to the
economy. Another concern is the mercury contamination around
most refineries and carbon black operations, and the neurological
damage this substance can cause. A "retard" is an economic drain
on society as long as they live, and the more the handicap, the
higher the cost [and someone must pay].


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).