In message , Arch
writes

We have worn out 'Art versus Craft', at least for the time being. To
further waste your time how about reviving another old and useless
debate? I mean "What defines a Professional Woodturner or separates him
from a Hobbyist"? It's not as simple as it looks, is it? The work of
some professionals can be amateurish. A hobbyist's work can be very
professional. etc. etc.

In my dictionary there are several definitions of a professional that
seem to overlap both hobbyist and professional woodturners. Do terms
like 'learned endeavor', 'expert', 'code of ethics', 'for financial
gain', 'livelihood', 'long, intensive preparation' 'full time' apply
only to the professional and rule out the accomplished hobbyist? Nope.

I thought I had found a definition or a reasonable understanding that
works for me, namely that a hobby is a pursuit outside of one's regular
occupation engaged in for relaxation. But suppose that a 'hobbist who
sells is retired or has no other occupation? This would apply to an
amateur turner as well, although there is a sense of lack of experienced
competence in the term 'amateur turner'.

For those who sell and call themselves hobbists, I ask why? For you who
consider yourselves to be professionals, how do you separate yourself
from accomplished hobbists who are retired or have no other occupation,
and sell a few birdhouses at the local flea market?

Of course the separation may not be distinct and only relates to the
degree of time spent turning and money made, but at what degree is the
difference apparent? Forty hours a week? Five hundred dollars a bowl?
What's your take? Please respond, even if you don't care. Orphan posts
even silly ones, are not much fun.

I've about decided that having a printed business card makes one a
professional. But suppose the work is amateurish? Here we go again.
Maybe he's an artist. Oh no, he's a craftsman, although his work is
amateurish art. In the end I reckon you are a professional or a hobbyist
(or a redneck) if you say you are. Who cares.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


I come from a background of Quality Assurance, and an important factor
is "Fit for Purpose" If the object that is made meets the needs of the
client then it can be either be by A N Other or Picasso, it matters not.

As has been mentioned by Mac and others each turning has an owner, you
just need to find them.

You could turn the most awful pen, none of the joints meeting smoothly,
horrid style. But what's to say it has no value, someone may purchase it
just to use as an example of how not to do it. (Have you ever tried to
do something your good at, badly ?)

My definition of a Professional has always been the simple one of if you
are paid for a service or produce a product you are paid for then you
are a professional. But you could extrapolate from this, a turner
producing bowls, but never sells one may not be a Professional Bowl
Turner' , though the same person could be producing hundreds of pens a
day, everyone selling, so you could call them a "Professional Pen
Turner".

So is it better to define a Professional Turner for individual
Disciplines Bowls, Pens, Spindles etc. as above. Or should the term
Professional Turner be applied, when the turner acquires Professional
status (as I have defined above) in 2,3,4, 5 different fields of
turning.

Is repeatability an important factor too, I would say no, as artists
like free expression, so probably prefer to make different objects every
time, always looking for that something better.

One thing over the years I have noticed is that "Professional Bodies"
have grown up to represent the interests of those in a specific trade,
they then define and tailor the standards for that Trade, and everyone
assumes they are correct, often to the exclusion of those who are not
members of their "Body" In some cases you can find such bodies where
when they started the requirements were A, B, C but now new members must
have X,Y,Z too, even though many existing members still have only A,B,C

We have all seen website that look amateurish, but they are often
created by Professionals, but to the clients requirements. So does a
professional needs to have the skill to look like an amateur? Conversely
does an Amateur have the skill to look like a Professional ?

Arch, you raise an interesting point, one which I think will be
discussed for hundreds of years, or until money is obsolete and the
definition of Professional needs revising
--
John