new thread started -- was Obamas plans for the US

On Sat, 24 May 2008 11:23:03 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote:
Metal content? Priced steel, aluminum or copper lately?

On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:37:02 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Its always dangerous to extrapolate from a single data point, but
this could be the first drops of water seeping through the cracks
as the dam bursts, although Vallejo is not a major municipality.

Like Orange was?
==========
Interesting that you remember Orange County.

I'm funny that way. LOL
I remembered Coughlin as well.
It comes from a life time of making mistakes and trying to learn from them
in an effort to avoid repetition.
There really isn't anything new under the sun.

snip some good comments
====================
Warren Buffet, one of the few remaining honest people in finance
has this to say:
-------------
Buffett blames banks for credit crisis
Sun May 25, 6:21 AM ET

MADRID (Reuters) - Blame for the sub-prime crisis lies at the
feet of banks who took too many risks in mortgage lending, U.S.
billionaire investor Warren Buffett told newspaper El Pais in an
interview published on Sunday.
"The banks exposed themselves too much, they took on too much
risk .... It's their fault. There's no need to blame anyone
else," he said.
snip
for complete interview click on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080525/..._EJosx6mlv24cA
------------

I will observe that this does not necessarily imply any sort of
cabal or conspiracy, but rather an excessive division of labor,
and top management that demanded "results," and were not
concerned how these were obtained, as long as jail time and
"disgorgement" were not a significant possibility (e.g. money
laundering, fronting drug deals, etc.).

In retrospect, it now appears there were three groups involved in
every bank.

Group one consisted of very bright, hard working and dedicated
individuals who were tasked with developing and implementing
processes/procedures to keep liabilities on the bank's books as
low a possible, while retaining potential income, such as SPE
[special purpose entities], SIVs [Special Investment Vehicles].
Conduits, and a series of novel financial instruments such as
synthetic structured RMBCDOs [residential mortgage backed
collateralized debt obligations]. In this they were
extraordinarily successful.

Group two consisted of very bright, hard working and dedicated
individuals who were tasked with maximizing both the utilization
of and rate of return on the bank's capital/equity, defined as
assets less liability (which group one was tasked with
minimizing). In this they too were extraordinarily successful.

Both groups were "enabled, aided and abetted" by financial rating
companies, who apparently were under the impression that an
intern with a "AAA" stamp, and a computer generated VAR [value at
risk] analysis, constituted "due diligence." In any event, the
rating companies and outside auditors could not understand the
risks involved in these novel financial instruments and
structures, because no one did, not even the people that created
them.

This segues into the story about the little boy that thought he
had discovered a money farm. He was working in the garden, and
found a nickel in the dirt, he put it in his pocket, worked a
little more and then found a dime and he put that in his pocket.
This continued all day, and the little boy was getting rich.
When he went in the house that night, he rushed upstairs to count
his money, and discovered in his pocket, one nickel, one dime and
a hole.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).