On Apr 9, 4:28*pm, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:
On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:02:29 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
Hi paul, I really dont see much of either heat gain winter or summer,
Im just arguing against misinformed oposition. *I see a flue going up
the uninsulated part of the tank going outdoors. I guess im a little
****ed at negatives thrown at tankless by people that never owned one,
and post wrong information. I own one, I can see on my 9$ summer gas
bill, I see a short payback, and I cook all food on a gas stove and
have a gas dryer. Tank Energy Factor is what nobody wants to
aknowlegde. Energy Factor for Tanks are about 52-60, and it simply
means, in fact, if your tank is a 60 E.F., $0.40 of every dollar you
pay to heat water is wasted. Tankless EF ratings are near Total
efficencies, Tankless EF ratings are from 82-95 [95 for a condensing
Takagi] We have all these folks here who put down tankless with bogus,
stupid, bad, information. *Granted tankless are not for all, but they
are designed to last 30 years since the coil is thick copper pipe,
they save money, they have drawbacks you must learn to live with, but
I like saving money and not paying utilitie companies. I did so well
with a 110 yr old house, lowering utilities from maybe 1500 a year to
550 that the gas company came out to see how was I stealing gas. I was
told by Nipsco my house is the most efficent they have seen. I heat
1800sq for no more than $105 at max -14f lows. Tankless can cost alot
more, but can cost the same, last longer, and save enough to pay you
back, very quickly. Quickly, and that is at todays Ng gas prices, with
oil over 100 a barrel, it`s going to rise real dam fast. Your payback
will be sooner with every Ng price increase, and last I read, new NG
field are not being opened from NIMBY bs, consumption is outpacing
production, that`s why LNG dockyards are being built, so we can IMPORT
gas on tankers, even though we have it in the ground. We have no
energy policy, we have no education. Even England mandates only
Condensing heating units, and England is an Exporter of energy. We are
an Importer. *Dam I should run for President and give America *an
Energy agenda.

Hi Mark,

I don't like misinformation either and I don't have a strong opinion
on this matter. *I don't doubt the operational performance of natural
gas tankless units is superior to that of their electric counterparts
and that the efficiency gains are more impressive. *I have no
first-hand experience with tankless gas, but I'm familiar with the
electric variant and that experience left me cold, literally! *

So your views are jaundiced. Taking experience from electric and
applying it to gas tankless is like comparing apples to oranges.



It may
very well have been undersized (I don't honestly know), but the water
never got what you would call "hot" even though the shower was
equipped with a low-flow head and I was the only user at the time.
Based on this admittedly limited experience, I would be hard pressed
to recommend an electric unit, unless it was a high capacity model and
that, in itself, opens up another can of worms.

And that has what to do with gas which has far higher output
capability?




If someone could tell me that a conventional gas water heater with an
EF of 0.60 would use X cubic metres (or therms) of gas per year and
that a state-of-the-art tankless version would use Y, it would help me
to better compare these two technologies.

Cheers,
Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The EF is a measure of how much hot water the unit produces per unit
of energy. It isn't that hard to calculate. If you know the EF of
your current unit, what your bills are and the EF of the other unit,
the math is straightforward.