"Hawke" wrote in message
...

Sounds like the counter view point is not a union member. How about
some personal experience stories, Roger.

Paul

I was a Union member, have held a couple of voluntary union posts,
became
a
manager and could not retain Union membership. I dont see Unions as a
threat, if you are a proactive manager the bulk of Union "issues" are
non
events as you have already sorted them - eg Health and Safety is a
management task, not a Unions officials. Unions are a fact of life,
good
managers cope with them, just like you deal with customers, suppliers
or
bad
weather. Thats what managers are paid to do, well they do where I
worked.

Some Unions certainly live in the past - notably the ones representing
the
"old" industries (heavy engineering, mining, refining) who have hung
onto
overmanning and under skilling. The Unions that had the foresight to
encourage increased skills (electrical trades for one) and encouraged
employers and employees to adapt to new technology have actually
increased
their membership and the wages and profits of the companies they work
with.

There is an increasing number of employers who see the threat from
third
world countries as a chance to just lower wages and revert to the 19th
Century, rather than develop a skilled, literate and numerate workforce
who
cant be bettered by third world workshops - Boeing, Thales, BAE, etc.
are
good examples. Plus some niche markets - I know of a printer who has
developed security tags for the retail industry, he used to employ
about
ten
printer/labourers, now employs about 50 with electronics backgrounds
who
produce high tech materials.


See, old Tom is against unions for the same reason all management is,
it's
their greed. Unions make companies cough up a share of the profits for
the
workers and that comes out of the pockets of shareholders and
management.
Tom says he would get less for a union company than a non union one.
That's
pretty simple isn't it. It's all about money and the unions having to
force
companies to share the wealth is what it's all about because
corporations
and businesses are always greedy. Look at the writers guild strike that
is
just being settled. The big shots didn't want to cut the writers in on
any
of the profits they were making selling on the internet. The only thing
that
made them relent was a strike. Which just proves that without a union to
bargain for the workers the bosses would screw them just like they did
in
the 1930s. For them nothing has changed. Without unions workers have to
compete against businesses all alone and they get the short end of the
stick
every time. Just like always. It's easy to see why all the right wing
businessmen are anti union isn't it?



Hawke



Once again, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You have
obviously
never held ANY type of responsible position and have most likely been
protected
by a union that otherwise your lack of marketable skills would have had
you
dismissed from even the most menial jobs. You have NO concept that
companies
DON'T exist for the sole benefit of hired workers. Socialism NEVER worked
in
the past, you think that it'll work THIS time. Fool...


As expected, you couldn't refute what I said so you had no choice but to
assume negative things about me (incorrectly) and make nasty personal
comments. What I said was perfectly true but you didn't like the truth so
you made personal attacks instead. But what else could you do? When you
can't come up with the facts to win an argument use a personal attack. Just
what I thought you would do. Your type is so predictable it's really boring.

Hawke



What you said was crap not truth! And, insulting to anybody that actually
provides jobs and actually has real wealth invested. Your socialist bunk don't
cut it. What makes you think that people are ENTITLED to other people's assets?