In article ,
says...

On Jan 29, 8:31=A0am, Banty wrote:
In article .=
com,
says...







On Jan 27, 9:40=3DA0pm, Boden wrote:
Mac wrote:
"Boden" wrote in message
...

Mac wrote:

Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. =3DA0A bit of a long story but=
suff=3D
ice
it to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were=

burnt out when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlor=
ds
wanted to move back in. =3DA0We used up 40 of our sixty days on a ho=
use t=3D
hat
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). =
=3DA0Wh=3D
en
we were finally released from the first house we had about a week to=

choose a place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, =
and=3D

move. =3DA0We knew we should rent and try to slow things down but co=
uldn'=3D
t
find anything that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in t=
he
block foundation. =3DA0Our realtor told us we could simply fill the =
crack=3D
s
with a specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy=
it=3D
.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go a=
nd
they looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what =
she=3D
's
talking about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. =3DA0I felt the =
dark
clouds forming over my head at that moment. =3DA0The epoxy supplier =
gave =3D
us a
name of a contractor and he came to the house. =3DA0He told us not t=
o mov=3D
e in
(which was to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. =3DA=
0Ever=3D
y
wall (that we can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by=

boxes shoved into closets that were built over the cracked walls). =
=3DA0I=3D
n
hind site, we should have walked away from the place after the final=

walkthrough but we were lead to believe that the walkthrough was jus=
t a=3D

formality and that we were pretty much locked in to the purchase at =
tha=3D
t
point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in =
the=3D

basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are)=
, a=3D
nd
no material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I ha=
d t=3D
o
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. =3DA=
0I
thought I did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not gett=
ing=3D

screwed, which I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we'=
re
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie =
abo=3D
ut
to resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what=
ca=3D
n
we do? =3DA0We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cra=
cks=3D

in foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties=
),
but I find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for th=
e
price of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). =3D=
A0I a=3D
m an
educator and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and=
th=3D
is
whole experience affected me deeply. =3DA0It's not a bad place (othe=
r tha=3D
n
the problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a chu=
rch=3D
,
and pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. =3DA0But still, I want ou=
t in =3D
a
year or so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? =
=3DA0T=3D
here
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothin=
g f=3D
or
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? =3DA0Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizo=
ntal,=3D
and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? =3DA0I'm a handy=
guy =3D
but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.

I've been following this post for several days and have a couple of
thoughts. =3DA0It sounds like you've been had. =3DA0To make you whole=
you wi=3D
ll
probably need to litigate. =3DA0Take a set of good photos that illust=
rate =3D
the
problem(s). =3DA0Make the measurements suggested elsewhere to determi=
ne if=3D
the
walls are moving, and are now non-planar. =3DA0Find an attorney with =
a goo=3D
d
track record in this area, not one that a friend of a friend suggests=
. =3D
=3DA0Do
your homework and interview several. =3DA0You are hiring them as a
consultant...approach it that way.

A first order search could be done by using Martindale-Hubble
(www.martindale.com) =3DA0Talk with the attorney, ask him to suggest =
an
engineer. =3DA0The reason for this is that the attorney will know whi=
ch
engineer will provide the evaluation and opinion that is most likely =
to
aid you. =3DA0This may not be the same engineer you will use later to=
desi=3D
gn a
remedy, but the best engineer, complete with plastic pocket protector=
ma=3D
y
not be the one your attorney wants testifying.

If you can find an attorney who will take this (perhaps on contingenc=
y)
then have at the seller. =3DA0After you know what resources you have =
to fi=3D
x
the problem talk with a good engineer and perhaps a hydro-geologist i=
f
water is an issue. =3DA0Remember though that little can be accomplish=
ed to=3D

hold back water from the inside of the foundation. =3DA0Diversion of =
the w=3D
ater
from the outside is the most effective approach. =3DA0French drains, =
perim=3D
eter
drains at the level of the footings, etc. are most effective.

I'm an engineer who has worked with numerous attorneys as an expert
witness...we've never lost a case. =3DA0(I don't do it any more. =3DA=
0I'm
retired.) However, I feel quite confident when I say that as with any=

profession, 90% of the engineers and attorneys are not in the top 10%=
.
Choose carefully.

Boden

Boden,
Feel like coming out of retirement?
Seriously, thanks for the advice. =3DA0I hope I'm better at choosing =
an at=3D
torney
than I am at real estate agents and inspectors.
I'm concerned though, if I go with an experienced attorney that has b=
een=3D
in
the area for a while...he may know the seller. =3DA0The seller was a =
busin=3D
essman
in this area for almost forty years. =3DA0If I go with a young hot sh=
ot, h=3D
e/she
may lack experience. =3DA0Should I look for someone with a limited ar=
ea of=3D

expertise (including real estate) or one with a broader scope?
I will do my homework and take the measurements.
Again, any advice would be appreciated.
-Mac

I'd look for an attorney outside the town/city you live in. =3DA0Find o=
ut
where the court for your county is. =3DA0Look for an attorney in that c=
ity.
=3DA0 Some individual practitioners are very good, but the larger firms=
tend=3D

to have resources that may be useful. =3DA0The hourly cost is not as
important as the total cost. =3DA0I find that the more experienced folk=
s
often cost less at the end of the day. =3DA0Negotiate. =3DA0Contingency=
, fixed=3D

price, not to exceed, etc. =3DA0Attorneys are in business too.

Boden- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Before I get all lawyered up, I'd find out the total extent of the
problems, which no one knows at this point. =A0 =A0If you have only $5K i=
n
repairs, then small claims is likely going to be the best option.
It's very unlikely an attorney is going to take this kind of case on
contingency, unless the potential recovery is large. =A0Between
attorney's fees and expert witness fees, you have to make a rational
decision of what this could cost, vs what you MIGHT win. =A0 And then
there is the issue of collecting. =A0 Getting a judgement and collecting
are two different things.

I'd ask around for references for lawyers from people you know.

He can consult once with a lawyer about property matters in order to know =
what
the law is and requirements are w.r.t. disclosure. =A0He doesn't have to "=
lawyer
up" to gain benefit from legal advice.

Banty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yes, many lawyers offer a free consultation. But you need to have
some common sense going into this. He doesn't even know the extent
of the problems. I'd concentrate on that before worrying about
choosing a lawyer. If he's out $2K, it's a whole different picture
than being out $50K. It's better he know which it is before he wastes
time with a lawyer based on hypotheticals.

Yep, I'd agree on that. Engineering analysis first, then legal stuff. The
legal stuff starting with a consultation.

It's a process to be taken one step at a time.

Banty