In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2008-01-03, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2008-01-02, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

O.K. I did not know that for sure. (And see later -- this does
not seem to be really the case.) They would either have to have
measurements from you for *your* T-slot (as they vary a lot), or know
the model of the lathe and know for sure that it is the original
compound. It *may* be pre-cut for the largest likely T-slot, and have to
be cut down some more for other sizes.

The Aloris website and catalog says that they will machine the plate for
you. MSC does not mention this, but some other distributors do.

O.K. I think that it is more trouble than it is worth for MSC,
just as they don't list the option of getting the toolmaker's hammer
engraved with the user's name -- which you can order through other
vendors, and Starrett does the engraving.

But most people who order a *new* Aloris toolpost also have a
milling macine available, so they can prepare the T-nut locally more
quickly than the communications and extra shipping to have Aloris do it.
Even if I were to buy a brand new Aloris toolpost, I think that I would
machine it in house instead of jumping through the extra hoops to have
Aloris do it for me. :-)

I have a mill too. I don't know which approach is more trouble. Turns
out that MSC gives you one more holder in the starter kit than Aloris,
and skips the machining, so the machining costs one holder, call it $75
to $100.

By the way, what is the diameter and thread of the hole in the Aloris
T-nut? 5/8-18? (It might be cheaper to get an extra Aloris T-nut than
to buy the 5/8-18 tap needed to make a new T-Nut for the Dickson.)


[ ... ]

You ideally should have at least one height-adjusting nut to
copy. But if you don't, here are the things to bear in mind.

1) The flange goes between two flanges on the top of the cam
one continuous, and one (the upper) interrupted to allow the
tool holder to be lifted clear. The thickness of the flange on
the nuts which you make need to be just a little thinner than
the spacing between the two flanges.

2) The diameter of the flange needs to be enough to reach from the
stud almost to the bottom of the groove between flanges on the
locking cam.

3) The height of the stud on the holder should be high enough to
allow the height-adjusting nut to be screwed on enough to hold
with base of the holder level with the base of the toolpost, and
short enough to allow the nut to be screwed on enough to lift the
holder on the V-rails so its top is level with the top of the
post. The Height adjusting nut needs to be long enough to allow
some threads from the stud at the lowest position of the tool
holder, and some threads from the lock screw at the highest
position of the tool holder.

And the ones which I have use Metric threaded setscrews and
height post screws. (But they are too small to fit our Clausings
anyway). Check to make sure whether you have metric or imperial threads
on yours.

The threads are all imperial, 5/16-18 to be precise.

I will try to buy the correct hardware, especially the pancake nuts.

Hmm ... "pancake nut" sounds like what Aloris uses. And the
difference between the Aloris and the Phase-II is that Aloris uses a
keyed lockwasher which engages a keyway on the stud, while Phase-II uses
only a plain inner star lockwasher, increasing the chance that the
setting will shift as you tighten the locknut.

I'll attempt to do an ASCII drawing of the Dickson/Emco/ToolMex
nut. As usual, view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid the
distortion which comes from a proportional pitch font.

+-------+ +-------+
||||||||||||||||||||||| ---- Knurled grip
|||||||||||||||||||||||
+---+ Z Z +---+
| Z Z |
| Z Z | ---------- Waist
| Z Z |
| Z Z |
| Z Z | (the 'Z's are the internal thread for
| Z Z | height adjustment)
| Z Z |
| Z Z |
| Z Z |
| Z Z |
+------+ Z Z +------+ -- Flange
+----------+ +----------+

For the Dickson style -- the Aloris pancake nuts won't work.

I will try to buy real Dickson pancake nuts, when I figure out who in
the US carries them. Or ships to the US under reasonable terms.


[ ... ]

I think I need an Aloris catalog, to know the options and their
prices.

That will tell you the options -- but I don't think that you
will find prices. For that, I use my MSC catalog as the reference.
(It
also has a pretty good listing for all of the options available.)

Yep. They do command a fine price, they do.

:-)

Which toolholders do you recommend I start with, by Aloris number, and
why? You mentioned a few, but without the numbers it's hard for me to
connect the dots.

O.K. MSC catalog time. Sigh -- I wonder which volume now that
they have split it in two. :-)

Hmm ... first off -- the notes accompanying a set of Aloris
toolpost and holders says:

"Tool post T-nut may require machining for your application"

so don't depend on Aloris doing it all for you. :-)

Well, don't depend on MSC to tell the whole story.

O.K. But as I said above -- I would probably do the machining
at home anyway -- and I think that MSC expects that for most purchasers.

First - the ones which come in the sets:

[ ... ]

6)* BXA-13 -- "new extension tool holder" -- good for threading
without hitting the tailstock live center. (I would like to
have a couple more of these, but I do have *one* -- bought new.

10)* BXA-16N or BXA-16. The double-ended insert holder. The 'N' is
for negative rake tools -- which with the right chipbreaker
groove still cut as positive -- but which have six cutting
points instead of three for the triangular inserts.

The ones marked with a '*' after the ')' are the only ones which
I bought new -- because I needed them, and I could never find a
reasonable enough price in eBay auctions -- only perhaps $10.00 less
than new price.

There are other interesting ones -- but these are the ones I
have, either genuine Aloris bought new (the ones marked with '*', or
Phase-II or used Aloris for the others.

Thanks for this list. I'll be thinking this over.

The two above are what I would look for as the first additions
to what comes in the "set". Of course -- if you aren't planning to use
insert tooling, the BXA-16 or BXA-16N would not make sense for you. But
you did ask what *I* would buy and why, so I tried to answer that. And
since you have a lathe of similar manufacture and size to mine, I think
that it is not too bad a selection. The multi-tool holder makes more
sense if you have a bed turret for your machine (as I do), and plan to
occasionally go into small "production" mode. :-)

No apology needed. I asked your personal opinion, based on your
experience with actual use (versus my catalog-reading). I also note
that there is considerable agreement between your list and the various
starter kits on offer as to the four or five most necessary holders.
This is exactly the kind of information I need.


Joe Gwinn