On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:12:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 19, 5:15 am, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:37:40 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 18, 6:50 am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:22:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 10, 5:05 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
I saw a clear full body picture of the Omaha shooter. Anyone who had a
concealed weapon and who could shoot decently could have lessened the
carnage. If you got a CCW, carry your weapon.

Put your bias aside for a moment, as difficult as I imagine it may be
for you.

No. I enjoy illogical non factual rants to reinforce my long held
prejudices. And honesty enuff to admit it.

Why would you have, seat belts, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers and
first aid kits in your home or vehicle?

Are you expecting a fire or injury or auto accident? Very very few
people ever experience such in their lives. Since they are
exceedingly rare, is it paranoid to have them around or to use them?

By your criteria, it would appear to be so.

Fire alarms - if I go off my brain in the mall, can I pull out my fire
alarm and kill people with it. No. A gun would be better.
Seat belts - they have been compulsory here since the 1970's. Rate of
fatal car crashes has declined by 50% per head of population. I
suppose I could unbolt the seat belt from my car and ram it down
someones throat and so kill them....but a gun would be better.

Im aware of a case where a nutter beat 2 people to death with a fire
extinguisher, and maimed a third.
On the other hand, the FBI and Department of Justice research
indicates that firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens stops
between 800,000 and 1.5 million crimes a year in the US.

There was something else, but its getting too unwieldy to track back
and see what it was.

Others, from the Government, to Insurance companies, to the homeowner
or driver themselves, think that while rare....the lack of the above
tools on hand, is really bad. And indeed, it is. Its not always the
risks, but the stakes.

If you screw up, and set the shop afire, or mum sets the stove top
afire..the lack of a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors may cost
you everything you own, including your or your families lives.

But a gun in my hand will not prevent this.....so what precisely is
your logic Gunner - I have my philosophy 101 textbook here somewhere,
if you like, I will dig out the section on illogical conclusions from
a sound premise...

A smoke detector, seat belt or fire extinguisher wont prevent a fire
or auto accident either. They are tools to be used AFTER the event is
underway.

Seems your bias has blinded you badly.

Seatbelts. Ive only been involved in one moderate vehicle accident,
some 35 yrs and perhaps 6 million miles of driving. So why should I
or anyone else bother with them? Same with seat belts on aircraft. I
have actually been in 2 air crashes, but they were shoot downs in
combat, so why should I bother wearing a seat belt while flying a
commercial or private airplane? To do so, by your criteria, would be
utter paranoia. After all, flying is about the safest mode of
transportation.

Agreed - and congratulations on surviving the car crash and the
shootdowns. I havent been shot down, but a seatbelt enabled me to
survive a horrific car crash. Sure, I got a broken collar bone,
cracked ribs, and a bung knee - the first two from the seatbelt, the
last from my knee hitting a steel sub panel under the dash. So, does
that even out the seatbelt/no seatbelt argument? - you were lucky, I
was not.

I wasnt lucky..I was prepared.

My choice to regularly carry a firearm on my person, is no different
than my choice to wear a seat belt, or have a fire extinguisher at
hand, or smoke detectors etc. Its just another tool to be used in a
"just in case" mode.

OK, assuming you not some crazed PTSD vet who holds extreme views, is
slightly nutty, and may go off his brain sometime and shoot someone....
(with his smoke detector) - this probably isnt you, but can you vouch
for the rest of the population?.

No. Nor can I vouch for drunk drivers, sleepy drivers, poor
electricians etc. I can only prepare for the results of their actions.

Gunner, its the sheer number of guns in the US thats the issue - thats
the only point I wanted to make.

You say that like its a bad thing? Frankly..I think with 300 Million
plus firearms in civilians hands, the safety record is exemplary each
year. far far better than motor vehicles, aircraft or doctors.

Yes, we have violent crime here, and its increasing. The use of knives
is increasing, almost certainly because the perps cant get guns. We
have largely controlled them. Shooting crimes are rare. Even the
domestic "crime of passion" using Granpas old shotgun from the back of
the wardrobe is getting rare. Kids killed by getting access to
firearms is also very rare.

Actually, gun crime is on the rise in the UK.

people kill people - and if they have access to guns, they can do it
more efficiently and in larger numbers.

Or a gallon of gasoline, a motor vehicle, or Semtex on buses.




As for obscure cites...what may be obscure to a Brit, may well be
common in the US. Speaking of obscure...ask any American what Test
Cricket is and is it popular?

Your probably correct - I have no interest in test cricket, its an
unimaginably boring game that can go for 3 days and result in a draw.
I don't understand it. Likewise, I don't have the cultural background
to understand the gun thing.

G Yet at least one nation is mad about it.

true. other nations are mad about guns..I dont understand that either.

Now you can turn your obvious bias back on and go on another snit.

nah. But will shut up, its obviously pointless. Will stick to
metalwork.

Your bias is pointless indeed, when you are not a Yank. Yanks
btw..who after an attempted gun grab by their government, tossed the
******s out and formed a new government. And have repeatedly sent you
lads guns when you didnt have enough of your own.

Seems you are doomed to repeat history. One need only review British
history for the bloody periods when arms were only for the highborn
and their minions.

Be well

Gunner


Andrew VK3BFA.


G

Gunner