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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#281
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Jeff R." wrote in message u... I'm still getting repeats on Letterman. Are the writers still on strike? Yes, but Letterman is striking a separate deal with the Writers' Guild and he'll probably be back on the air soon. -- Ed Huntress Thanks Ed. I'll keep waiting (for Letterman), but I'll still pass on South Park. I *do* appreciate some of the satire, but the rest I find too painful to endure. -- Jeff R. |
#282
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Jeff R." wrote in message u... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Jeff R." wrote in message u... I'm still getting repeats on Letterman. Are the writers still on strike? Yes, but Letterman is striking a separate deal with the Writers' Guild and he'll probably be back on the air soon. -- Ed Huntress Thanks Ed. I'll keep waiting (for Letterman), but I'll still pass on South Park. I *do* appreciate some of the satire, but the rest I find too painful to endure. No prudent adult would watch it. But then, prudent adults usually go for Leno over Letterman, so you have some of the right attitude for South Park. Sometimes there's nothing else worth watching on cable, and we have around 300 channels. I can only watch re-runs of "Pale Rider" once a month or so. We don't get Al-Jazeera on our cable system so I can't keep up with the news. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#283
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Take yer gun to the mall
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote: Few police have ever been shot at Forty-two were killed with handguns in 2005; 8 were killed with other guns. 50 police out of how many hundred thousand? More dangerous being a farmer. Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#284
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Take yer gun to the mall
"nick hull" wrote in message .. . In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote: Few police have ever been shot at Forty-two were killed with handguns in 2005; 8 were killed with other guns. 50 police out of how many hundred thousand? More dangerous being a farmer. That was the number killed, not the number shot at. Most criminals don't hit what they're aiming at. DOJ says that, in one year (early '90s), over 1,400 police officers were injured in firearms assaults and 67, in that year, were killed with firearms while responding to a crime. Overall statistics, including cops, say that the ratio of victims hit with a gunshot to those shot at was 3:8. So something like 3,000 police officers, very roughly, are shot at in the course of a year. -- Ed Huntress |
#285
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Take yer gun to the mall
Don Foreman wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:50:13 -0700, Lew Hartswick wrote: nick hull wrote: Few police have ever been shot at We just had a female state police shot dead in Las Cruces recently. I supose that dosent count. :-( ...lew... It counts. Bummer that an LE officer was KIA in line of duty. Why did you specify that this officer was female, rather than simply saying that a competent officer was KIA. Do you think that equal opportunity doesn't cut both ways? Do you think that she would have wanted that? Turns out it was her son that is being held for it. Maybe that makes it "domestic". I included the female because that is how the release was worded. There aren't that many female state police that it isn't at least a little unusual. ...lew... |
#286
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Take yer gun to the mall
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#287
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:49:40 -0600, Don Foreman wrote:
Most folks here also think they don't. The vast majority of them (us) will live their full lives turning out to be right about that. A few feel it prudent to have what they probably won't need than not to have what they might conceivably someday need. They each should have the right to make their own choices. In the U.S., we do. Yup. Look at it a similar way. Not everyone has the training and inclination to use a fire extinguisher on an appropriately sized fire. Even fewer know how to use the public-access defibrillators which are being installed in schools, malls, and workplaces. Yet, those of us who are trained and willing to use them for their intended purpose, by proxy, protect dozens or hundreds of others by doing so. In VK3 land, you don't. Your choice. In VK3 land one may not even have an incandescant lightbulb! It's easy to see why Andrew can only understand what he is given to understand by the sensational media. Yup. "Awash with guns" indeed. What poppycock -- and such persistent poppycock it seems to be! The county I'm in almost certainly has more guns than residents. And our last murder was (googles) 1995, as far as I know. Actually there might have been one or two since now that I think about it. Doesn't change the point that guns are a deterrant to violent crime, simply because so many more good people are armed, than there are bad people. At least here, where we're not forbidden from defending ourselves from bad people who will always be armed. The hotbutton here is the notion of having those who don't think they need or want firearms wanting to decide that since they don't like them, nobody should have them. Yup. Feel free to drive your car without a spare tire if you want, but don't you DARE tell me I'm not allowed to. My spare tire and tire iron aren't hurting anyone, even though it's true that some people have been attacked by others using a tire iron. |
#288
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Take yer gun to the mall
In , on Thu, 20 Dec 2007
06:06:06 -0500, Ed Huntress, wrote: Yes, but Letterman is striking a separate deal with the Writers' Guild and he'll probably be back on the air soon. Hopefully that means Craig Ferguson will be back soon too. |
#289
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Dec 20, 8:11*pm, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:49:40 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: Most folks here also think they don't. *The vast majority of them (us) will live their full lives turning out to be right about that. *A few feel it prudent to have what they probably won't need than not to have what they might conceivably someday need. *They each should have the right to make their own choices. *In the U.S., we do. Yup. *Look at it a similar way. *Not everyone has the training and inclination to use a fire extinguisher on an appropriately sized fire. Even fewer know how to use the public-access defibrillators which are being installed in schools, malls, and workplaces. *Yet, those of us who are trained and willing to use them for their intended purpose, by proxy, protect dozens or hundreds of others by doing so. * In VK3 land, you don't. *Your choice. *In VK3 land one may not even have an incandescant lightbulb! *It's easy to see why Andrew can only understand what he is given to understand by the sensational media. Yup. "Awash with guns" indeed. *What poppycock -- and such persistent poppycock it seems to be! * * * * The county I'm in almost certainly has more guns than residents. *And our last murder was (googles) 1995, as far as I know. *Actually there might have been one or two since now that I think about it. *Doesn't change the point that guns are a deterrant to violent crime, simply because so many more good people are armed, than there are bad people. At least here, where we're not forbidden from defending ourselves from bad people who will always be armed. The hotbutton here is the notion of having those who don't think they need or want firearms wanting to decide that since they don't like them, *nobody should have them. * Yup. *Feel free to drive your car without a spare tire if you want, but don't you DARE tell me I'm not allowed to. *My spare tire and tire iron aren't hurting anyone, even though it's true that some people have been attacked by others using a tire iron. What if a law is passed that makes carrying a spare tire/tire iron illegal? Will you as a law abiding citizen follow the law of the land or become one of those that break the law? Would the Government have the right and responsibility to enforce this law to the extent the law allows? TMT |
#290
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Dec 20, 8:37*pm, Steve Ackman
wrote: In , on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:06:06 -0500, Ed Huntress, wrote: Yes, but Letterman is striking a separate deal with the Writers' Guild and he'll probably be back on the air soon. * Hopefully that means Craig Ferguson will be back soon too. I don't know about that....the networks are hurting (ratings way down) so they are trying to get the late night people (who use the fewest writers and supporting staff) to break ranks. It will be interesting to see who wins this one...it is already apparent who makes the difference in Tinseltown. TMT |
#291
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:35:23 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote: What if a law is passed that makes carrying a spare tire/tire iron illegal? What if pigs could fly? New sport for shotgunners, upland bacon! Need a BIG dog to retreive, though. |
#292
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:38:03 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote: On Dec 20, 8:37*pm, Steve Ackman wrote: In , on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:06:06 -0500, Ed Huntress, wrote: Yes, but Letterman is striking a separate deal with the Writers' Guild and he'll probably be back on the air soon. * Hopefully that means Craig Ferguson will be back soon too. I don't know about that....the networks are hurting (ratings way down) so they are trying to get the late night people (who use the fewest writers and supporting staff) to break ranks. It will be interesting to see who wins this one...it is already apparent who makes the difference in Tinseltown. Note: I don't have a dog in this fight. There are a few details to remember: Letterman owns his own show through "Worldwide Pants", and if he can come to a separate agreement with the writers and get back in high gear it might well break the negotiations log-jam. And it's the AMPTP's game plan to starve out the writers and the rest of the industry, and try to get a contract that's even cheaper than the one they had. Because if they cave to the writers, the directors are next, then the Talent, then the technical people... They might be able to pressure Letterman to NOT sign a separate deal. Leno and Conan are hired help - very expensive hired help. They have stayed out because they don't have to cross a picket line, but the pressure is on to keep their other show staff from being fired. I say let all the talk shows and daytime go back and let the shows royally suck without any writing work being done. They won't be able to get the A-list talent to cross the picket line, they'll only get the B- and C-listers. And far fewer clips and cut-aways, because that's all researched and worked out in advance - by writers. And as the ratings plunge and all the advertisers demand refunds and make-goods, the TV Networks will throw the shows back into re-runs to try and salvage their finances. That's how the Networks and Studios get hurt - the TV revenues and the Movie Box Office goes into the dumper. Then they'll come back to the table and start talking seriously. |
#293
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Take yer gun to the mall
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote: Few police have ever been shot at Forty-two were killed with handguns in 2005; 8 were killed with other guns. 50 police out of how many hundred thousand? More dangerous being a farmer. That was the number killed, not the number shot at. Most criminals don't hit what they're aiming at. And how many farmers had near misses? Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#294
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:15:16 -0800 (PST), wrote: Yes, its a good summary of your situation. I have no issue with that. Then why do you presume to inject your irrelevant fantasy world into reality so frequently? How many times have you had to pull your gun in "reality," Dave? In other words, what kind of cockeyed reality do you live in? A shooting gallery, and you're the duck? Pity you need to, though. Glad I don't have to be armed and ready to do the same. Yeah, like that. The point I'm making, which you're missing, is that I don't care that you don't get it. Really. But when I do care is when peole who, like you, don't get it, want to stop me from dealing with reality. It sounds like Andrew lives in reality; you live in the fantasy. Do you do a lot of dry fire practice before going to bed? Do you keep your gun handy when you watch movies with bad guys on TV? For that matter, what suggestion has Andrew made that he wants to stop you from dealing with "reality"? Have you been feeling paranoid lately? Funny that the same leftists who want to take my guns away, are also the ones trying to rehabilitate and "give another chance" to the very people I need the ability to protect myself from. It makes me wonder whose side those leftists are on. Because it's certainly not MY best interests that they are protecting. You could ease your tensions by getting more target practice. Make up a big puppet and label it "Liberal." Stuff with straw. Fire away. -- Ed Huntress |
#295
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Dec 21, 2:18*am, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:38:03 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Dec 20, 8:37*pm, Steve Ackman wrote: In , on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:06:06 -0500, Ed Huntress, wrote: Yes, but Letterman is striking a separate deal with the Writers' Guild and he'll probably be back on the air soon. * Hopefully that means Craig Ferguson will be back soon too. I don't know about that....the networks are hurting (ratings way down) so they are trying to get the late night people (who use the fewest writers and supporting staff) to break ranks. It will be interesting to see who wins this one...it is already apparent who makes the difference in Tinseltown. * Note: *I don't have a dog in this fight. * There are a few details to remember: *Letterman owns his own show through "Worldwide Pants", and if he can come to a separate agreement with the writers and get back in high gear it might well break the negotiations log-jam. * And it's the AMPTP's game plan to starve out the writers and the rest of the industry, and try to get a contract that's even cheaper than the one they had. *Because if they cave to the writers, the directors are next, then the Talent, then the technical people... They might be able to pressure Letterman to NOT sign a separate deal. * Leno and Conan are hired help - very expensive hired help. *They have stayed out because they don't have to cross a picket line, but the pressure is on to keep their other show staff from being fired. * I say let all the talk shows and daytime go back and let the shows royally suck without any writing work being done. *They won't be able to get the A-list talent to cross the picket line, they'll only get the B- and C-listers. *And far fewer clips and cut-aways, because that's all researched and worked out in advance - by writers. * And as the ratings plunge and all the advertisers demand refunds and make-goods, the TV Networks will throw the shows back into re-runs to try and salvage their finances. * That's how the Networks and Studios get hurt - the TV revenues and the Movie Box Office goes into the dumper. *Then they'll come back to the table and start talking seriously.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good assessment. Letterman may or may not be successful...and I doubt either way it will make a difference. It is time to redistribute the wealth...and that is always a messy effort. I expect to see the strike last for a long time...and there only so many reality tv shows the public will stomach. TMT |
#296
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Dec 21, 8:45*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:15:16 -0800 (PST), wrote: Yes, its a good summary of your *situation. I have no issue with that.. Then why do you presume to inject your irrelevant fantasy world into reality so frequently? How many times have you had to pull your gun in "reality," Dave? In other words, what kind of cockeyed reality do you live in? A shooting gallery, and you're the duck? Pity you need to, though. Glad I don't have to be armed and ready to do the same. Yeah, like that. *The point I'm making, which you're missing, is that I don't care that you don't get it. *Really. *But when I do care is when peole who, like you, don't get it, want to stop me from dealing with reality. It sounds like Andrew lives in reality; you live in the fantasy. Do you do a lot of dry fire practice before going to bed? Do you keep your gun handy when you watch movies with bad guys on TV? For that matter, what suggestion has Andrew made that he wants to stop you from dealing with "reality"? Have you been feeling paranoid lately? *Funny that the same leftists who want to take my guns away, are also the ones trying to rehabilitate and "give another chance" to the very people I need the ability to protect myself from. It makes me wonder whose side those leftists are on. *Because it's certainly not MY best interests that they are protecting. You could ease your tensions by getting more target practice. Make up a big puppet and label it "Liberal." Stuff with straw. Fire away. -- Ed Huntress Dave..... Ed makes a very good point....your response? TMT |
#297
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Take yer gun to the mall
"nick hull" wrote in message .. . In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote: Few police have ever been shot at Forty-two were killed with handguns in 2005; 8 were killed with other guns. 50 police out of how many hundred thousand? More dangerous being a farmer. That was the number killed, not the number shot at. Most criminals don't hit what they're aiming at. And how many farmers had near misses? I don't know. How many farmers wear blue jeans? -- Ed Huntress |
#298
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:31:08 -0600, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:35:23 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools wrote: What if a law is passed that makes carrying a spare tire/tire iron illegal? What if pigs could fly? New sport for shotgunners, upland bacon! Need a BIG dog to retreive, though. I see TMT is still an idiot. Of course, I'd violate a law banning me from having a tire iron, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, or any other piece of safety equipment. |
#299
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Take yer gun to the mall
wrote Yes, its a good summary of your situation. I have no issue with that. Pity you need to, though. Glad I don't have to be armed and ready to do the same. Andrew VK3BFA. Too bad that gladness will turn to sadness when the day comes that you need self defense and don't have it. Or you have to watch helplessly while you and yours or friends or people you don't even know have to take it in the neck. At least go buy a decent sized can of pepper spray. Enjoy your Pollyannish Utopia. And remember, reality always sneaks in just to keep things straight. Don't ferget yer rose colored glasses when you to out. Steve |
#300
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Take yer gun to the mall
"cavelamb himself" wrote I personally own many firearms and have never felt the need to carry concealed. TMT I won't make a habit of it, but I completely agree hee. Richard All it takes is one bad experience, Richard. BTW, how's those stainless projects coming? I am going to Vegas over the next few weeks. Need any more? Steve |
#301
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Take yer gun to the mall
wrote in message ... On Dec 19, 5:47 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Awash with guns" indeed. What poppycock -- and such persistent poppycock it seems to be! Well, if not "awash," what the hell do you call a society of 300 million people and 250 million guns? Askew? g -- Ed Huntress I don't think "awash" is the right word. You wouldn't say that we are awash with cars, would you? Awash implies that there are more than what anyone knows what to do with the large quanity. Say one has one 12 gauge pump or automatic shotgun to use for hunting waterfowl. And another 12 gauge over and under for hunting upland birds. And a twenty gauge pump or automatic for shooting skeet in the 20 gauge class. I am assuming you can get by with using one of your 12 gauge shotguns for the 12 gauge class and that you don't compete in the 28 gauge and .410 classes. Then you might want a .22 and a .38 target pistol. A .22 target rifle, a .22 to plink with, a .22 center fire for varmit shooting. Say a .243 for deer hunting and a larger rifle for bigger game. Well that get you up to 10 guns. And while that may seem like a lot, they are all suited for different things. So I wouldn't say you were awash in guns. And none of these are what you would want to have to carry concealed. And none of them are assault rifles. Also no black powder guns , collectors guns, or Saturday night specials. Would you say someone was awash with machine tools because he has a lathe, drill press, vertical mill, and a bandsaw? Dan So, you have roughly one gun per person in the US. If they would ONLY count the people who own NO guns, that is a figure I would find more reality based, as in my household, we have enough for about 25 people............ more or less. Does that mean I'm awash? Steve |
#302
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Take yer gun to the mall
SteveB wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote I personally own many firearms and have never felt the need to carry concealed. TMT I won't make a habit of it, but I completely agree hee. Richard All it takes is one bad experience, Richard. BTW, how's those stainless projects coming? I am going to Vegas over the next few weeks. Need any more? Steve Sure Steve! I cut exactly two of them so far. Really impressive light show with an abrasive blade in the chop saw! LOUD too. But I CAN cet then stripped out. Can they slice 1" wide strips? If possible... Richard See, beggars CAN be choosie! BTW, New interior sketch is up. I never did like the clunky port side appliance. Scroll down about 3 screens... http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/c18-cab.htm |
#303
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:49:40 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: The U.S. originated as a quest for liberty and independence. It is part of our culture to want to decide for ourselves as long as we don't encroach on the rights of others to decide for themselves. If one doesn't want firearms, he is quite free not to have them. If another does want them, he is free to have them with varying restrictions in various locales. One should note..that the straw that broke the camels back, was an attempt by the Government, to take the guns away from the People. The events at Concord ultimately led to the overthrow of the Government. Seems that those that ignore history, are doomed to repeat it. Gunner |
#304
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:50:13 -0700, Lew Hartswick
wrote: nick hull wrote: Few police have ever been shot at We just had a female state police shot dead in Las Cruces recently. I supose that dosent count. :-( ...lew... One is "few" The leading cause of death among police officers, is traffic accidents. The majority of police shootings, are shootings done with their own weapon, after having it taken away from them by the suspect, who didnt have one of his own. Shall we disarm all police officers for their own safety? Gunner |
#305
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:39:45 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote: You could ease your tensions by getting more target practice. Make up a big puppet and label it "Liberal." Stuff with straw. Fire away. -- Ed Huntress Dave..... Ed makes a very good point....your response? TMT To be an accurate representation of a Liberal, , the dummy has to be stuffed with straw already run through the bull. Gunner |
#306
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Take yer gun to the mall
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#307
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Take yer gun to the mall
Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:50:13 -0700, Lew Hartswick wrote: nick hull wrote: Few police have ever been shot at We just had a female state police shot dead in Las Cruces recently. I supose that dosent count. :-( ...lew... One is "few" The leading cause of death among police officers, is traffic accidents. The majority of police shootings, are shootings done with their own weapon, after having it taken away from them by the suspect, who didnt have one of his own. Shall we disarm all police officers for their own safety? Gunner I dunno. I think _I_ would feel safer. The English Bobbies really impressed me. They were approachable. They didn't seem like tough guys - which many police officers here seem to want to be. And, since they are never around when a crime is being comitted... |
#308
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Take yer gun to the mall
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#309
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Take yer gun to the mall
SteveB wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... SteveB wrote: "cavelamb himself" wrote I personally own many firearms and have never felt the need to carry concealed. TMT I won't make a habit of it, but I completely agree hee. Richard All it takes is one bad experience, Richard. BTW, how's those stainless projects coming? I am going to Vegas over the next few weeks. Need any more? Steve Sure Steve! I cut exactly two of them so far. Really impressive light show with an abrasive blade in the chop saw! LOUD too. But I CAN cet then stripped out. Can they slice 1" wide strips? If possible... Richard See, beggars CAN be choosie! BTW, New interior sketch is up. I never did like the clunky port side appliance. Scroll down about 3 screens... http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/c18-cab.htm I'll dig through the scrap barrel. Hopefully they'll have more this time. I just returned today from Vegas. Had a colonoscopy at ten then we drove back about three. My wife drove. I really didn't feel like going and digging through scrap today and making a mess in their yard. Literally. Next trip, I'll try to get over there. If it's a lucky day, they have a BUNCH, maybe even some small strips like you need. Steve Uhm, my condolences - but way too much detail!!! Feel better soon. That's an order. Richard |
#310
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:45:56 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:15:16 -0800 (PST), wrote: Yes, its a good summary of your situation. I have no issue with that. Then why do you presume to inject your irrelevant fantasy world into reality so frequently? How many times have you had to pull your gun in "reality," Dave? In other words, what kind of cockeyed reality do you live in? A shooting gallery, and you're the duck? Irrelevant. The right to own something confers no obligation to defend a need to own it, to you or anyone else. Pity you need to, though. Glad I don't have to be armed and ready to do the same. Yeah, like that. The point I'm making, which you're missing, is that I don't care that you don't get it. Really. But when I do care is when peole who, like you, don't get it, want to stop me from dealing with reality. It sounds like Andrew lives in reality; you live in the fantasy. Do you do a lot of dry fire practice before going to bed? Do you keep your gun handy when you watch movies with bad guys on TV? It sounds like Andrew's perception of reality is more in line with yours. For that matter, what suggestion has Andrew made that he wants to stop you from dealing with "reality"? Have you been feeling paranoid lately? Reread, please. He said "people like [Andrew]". Does that fit you? You could ease your tensions by getting more target practice. Make up a big puppet and label it "Liberal." Stuff with straw. Fire away. That is gratuitous patronization unworthy of your ability to contribute. |
#311
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Take yer gun to the mall
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... SteveB wrote: "cavelamb himself" wrote I personally own many firearms and have never felt the need to carry concealed. TMT I won't make a habit of it, but I completely agree hee. Richard All it takes is one bad experience, Richard. BTW, how's those stainless projects coming? I am going to Vegas over the next few weeks. Need any more? Steve Sure Steve! I cut exactly two of them so far. Really impressive light show with an abrasive blade in the chop saw! LOUD too. But I CAN cet then stripped out. Can they slice 1" wide strips? If possible... Richard See, beggars CAN be choosie! BTW, New interior sketch is up. I never did like the clunky port side appliance. Scroll down about 3 screens... http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/c18-cab.htm I'll dig through the scrap barrel. Hopefully they'll have more this time. I just returned today from Vegas. Had a colonoscopy at ten then we drove back about three. My wife drove. I really didn't feel like going and digging through scrap today and making a mess in their yard. Literally. Next trip, I'll try to get over there. If it's a lucky day, they have a BUNCH, maybe even some small strips like you need. Steve |
#312
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Take yer gun to the mall
SteveB wrote:
So, you have roughly one gun per person in the US. If they would ONLY count the people who own NO guns, that is a figure I would find more reality based, as in my household, we have enough for about 25 people............ more or less. Does that mean I'm awash? Properly equipped. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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Take yer gun to the mall
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:45:56 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: Do you do a lot of dry fire practice before going to bed? Uh oh! How much is a lot? Is this one of the ... shudder... telltale signs? |
#314
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Take yer gun to the mall
"SteveB" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Dec 19, 5:47 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Awash with guns" indeed. What poppycock -- and such persistent poppycock it seems to be! Well, if not "awash," what the hell do you call a society of 300 million people and 250 million guns? Askew? g -- Ed Huntress I don't think "awash" is the right word. You wouldn't say that we are awash with cars, would you? Awash implies that there are more than what anyone knows what to do with the large quanity. Say one has one 12 gauge pump or automatic shotgun to use for hunting waterfowl. And another 12 gauge over and under for hunting upland birds. And a twenty gauge pump or automatic for shooting skeet in the 20 gauge class. I am assuming you can get by with using one of your 12 gauge shotguns for the 12 gauge class and that you don't compete in the 28 gauge and .410 classes. Then you might want a .22 and a .38 target pistol. A .22 target rifle, a .22 to plink with, a .22 center fire for varmit shooting. Say a .243 for deer hunting and a larger rifle for bigger game. Well that get you up to 10 guns. And while that may seem like a lot, they are all suited for different things. So I wouldn't say you were awash in guns. And none of these are what you would want to have to carry concealed. And none of them are assault rifles. Also no black powder guns , collectors guns, or Saturday night specials. Would you say someone was awash with machine tools because he has a lathe, drill press, vertical mill, and a bandsaw? Dan So, you have roughly one gun per person in the US. If they would ONLY count the people who own NO guns, that is a figure I would find more reality based, as in my household, we have enough for about 25 people............ As I have enough for around 10 (eight guns). Which makes me scratch my head over the claim that 60% of US households have at least one gun. But I haven't looked into the methodology of that claim. I think it comes from a Census survey or something. more or less. Does that mean I'm awash? Countries can be awash with guns. Individuals are bristling. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#315
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Take yer gun to the mall
"SteveB" wrote in message ... wrote Yes, its a good summary of your situation. I have no issue with that. Pity you need to, though. Glad I don't have to be armed and ready to do the same. Andrew VK3BFA. Too bad that gladness will turn to sadness when the day comes that you need self defense and don't have it. Or you have to watch helplessly while you and yours or friends or people you don't even know have to take it in the neck. At least go buy a decent sized can of pepper spray. Enjoy your Pollyannish Utopia. And remember, reality always sneaks in just to keep things straight. Don't ferget yer rose colored glasses when you to out. DOJ says that in one really foul gun-crime year (1982), the proportion of US citizens who were victims of a gun crime (non-injury, non-fatal, and fatal combined) was 4.0 per 1,000. The very large majority of those were people who live in gang-ridden and drug-ridden ghettos. Who is the Pollyanna here? What is the "reality"? -- Ed Huntress |
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:49:40 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: The U.S. originated as a quest for liberty and independence. It is part of our culture to want to decide for ourselves as long as we don't encroach on the rights of others to decide for themselves. If one doesn't want firearms, he is quite free not to have them. If another does want them, he is free to have them with varying restrictions in various locales. One should note..that the straw that broke the camels back, was an attempt by the Government, to take the guns away from the People. The events at Concord ultimately led to the overthrow of the Government. Seems that those that ignore history, are doomed to repeat it. Gunner And the lesson is...don't stand up and wear red coats if people are shooting at you. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:50:13 -0700, Lew Hartswick wrote: nick hull wrote: Few police have ever been shot at We just had a female state police shot dead in Las Cruces recently. I supose that dosent count. :-( ...lew... One is "few" The leading cause of death among police officers, is traffic accidents. Not true. In 2006, 38 were killed in traffic accidents. In the same year, 46 were killed in felonious assaults with guns. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/index.html The majority of police shootings, are shootings done with their own weapon, after having it taken away from them by the suspect, who didnt have one of his own. Also not true. The FBI's LEOKA (Law Enforcement Officers Killed or Assaulted) data says that, in the ten years from 1994 to 2003, 499 officers were feloniously killed with guns. Of those, 42 of those guns were the officers' own weapons. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/leoka03.pdf (Table 11, page 16) Shall we disarm all police officers for their own safety? First, run a bronze bristle brush dipped in Hoppe's No. 9 in one of your ears and out the other, to clean out the crap in your head. Then re-fill it with the facts. -- Ed Huntress |
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:45:56 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:15:16 -0800 (PST), wrote: Yes, its a good summary of your situation. I have no issue with that. Then why do you presume to inject your irrelevant fantasy world into reality so frequently? How many times have you had to pull your gun in "reality," Dave? In other words, what kind of cockeyed reality do you live in? A shooting gallery, and you're the duck? Irrelevant. The right to own something confers no obligation to defend a need to own it, to you or anyone else. Don't start the bait-and-switch, Don. We aren't talking about rights. We're talking about Dave's definition of "reality." His reality appears to be pretty weird one, in terms of actual events. You know full well that I have no problem with his right to defend himself. What I have a problem with is his idea of what the real probabilities are. Andrew seems to be living in the real world. Dave appears to be living in a bad movie. Pity you need to, though. Glad I don't have to be armed and ready to do the same. Yeah, like that. The point I'm making, which you're missing, is that I don't care that you don't get it. Really. But when I do care is when peole who, like you, don't get it, want to stop me from dealing with reality. It sounds like Andrew lives in reality; you live in the fantasy. Do you do a lot of dry fire practice before going to bed? Do you keep your gun handy when you watch movies with bad guys on TV? It sounds like Andrew's perception of reality is more in line with yours. It also seems to be more accurate, unless you're a gang-banger drug dealer who lives in a crack alley on the bad side of Memphis. For that matter, what suggestion has Andrew made that he wants to stop you from dealing with "reality"? Have you been feeling paranoid lately? Reread, please. He said "people like [Andrew]". Does that fit you? People "like Andrew" doesn't include Andrew? Are you reading your own words, Don? It sure sounds to me like he's including Andrew himself. By what logic is he not? And I'll ask you what I asked him: By what twisted logic do you come to the conclusion that Andrew wants to grab your guns? Andrew seems to have his head screwed on straight. Dave is living a paranoid fantasy and Gunner has a head full of mush fed to him by the loony-tunes at Guncite. You want to run some numbers, and see what's real? Or would you rather live in a fantasy world, like them? Here's an example: Gunner's "data" on the number of times guns are used in defense is based on a study by Gary Kleck, which I know well, and about which I wrote an analysis in 1994 (no, I don't still have it; it went the way of old hard disks). There was an attempt to repeat some of it by the DOJ/National Institute of Justice in 1997, reported by Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig: http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles/165476.pdf. It's unlikely that Gunner has ever read that study, but he's probably read the Guncite summaries and Kleck's commentary about it. In fact, unless he continues to pretend he doesn't read my posts, he'll find some way to respond to my recent one with DOJ figures and he'll probably quote this, unless he reads this post first g: "There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually. "Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually." But what Guncite doesn't tell you is that the DOJ study (NSPOF) fairly obliterates Kleck's study. Here, they're talking about how they closely copied his methodology and got equally ridiculous results: "For other crimes listed in exhibit 8, the results are almost as absurd: the NSPOF estimate of DGU robberies is 36 percent of all NCVS [National Crime Vicitimization Survey] -estimated robberies, while the NSPOF estimate of DGU assaults is 19 percent of all aggravated assaults. If those percentages were close to accurate, crime would be a risky business indeed! [What they're saying here is that repeating Kleck's study leads to the conclusion that people defended themselves with a gun in 19 percent of aggravated assaults and 36 percent of robberies. Considering that actual defensive use of a gun as reported by police in actual crimes runs between 1% and 3%, the conclusion is that the Kleck study gives you crap results to the tune of 10:1 or even much more. That agrees with the relative numbers Gunner and I cited in a recent post. He's at least 10:1 full of crap, in other words.] "NSPOF estimates also suggest that 130,000 criminals are wounded or killed by civilian gun defenders. That number also appears completely out of line with other, more reliable statistics on the number of gunshot cases." Gaackk! Yeah, I'll say it's out of line, unless something over 100,000 gunshot victims per year are self-medicating. Maybe they're doing self-surgery with a Bowie knife and a bottle of whiskey. d8-) What I didn't repeat here is the statistic that Kleck's study, and the NSPOF duplicate of it, indicate that women defend themselves with guns in rape attempts, in more cases than all of the rapes AND ATTEMPTED RAPES reported in the National Crime Victimization Survey. There sure must be a lot of pistol-packing mommas out there! Cloud-cuckooland, anyone? Kleck makes a few good points in his response but unfortunately they address the wrong issue. He gives reasons that the NSPOF study underreports the numbers. But the NSPOF actually came up with numbers almost as ridiculous as his. The real issue is that the methodology leads to demonstrably ridiculous results. Kleck's study was very carefully done, very scientific...crap. Read the NSPOF study and you'll get a clearer picture of what this is all about. Of course, Guncite tells you none of this and Gunner probably has never heard it before. That's why his head is full of mush. As for Dave, it's harder to characterize his fantasies but he seems to think the world is out to get him. Maybe he wears Nomex suits when he drives his car, too; it would make a lot more sense, statistically speaking. The bottom line here is that rights are one issue: I believe that anyone has a right to defend him- or herself, and that can include defense with a concealed-carry gun if they reasonably believe that's what is required. I'm not quibbling over percentages in terms of rights. But don't try to tell me that it makes sense in terms of real threats, or that it's "reality." That, simply put, is nuts. Reality is that you're four times more likely to be killed in a car accident, even if you don't count where you live. If you live and work in a decent community, it's probably more like 50 times more likely, or even more. But few people who claim they're carrying a gun to defend themselves against "reality" would even consider wearing five-point seatbelts, having a full rollcage, and wearing a firesuit. Any of those things is far more likely to protect them from injury or death, in reality, than carrying a gun. Reality is the numbers. You could ease your tensions by getting more target practice. Make up a big puppet and label it "Liberal." Stuff with straw. Fire away. That is gratuitous patronization unworthy of your ability to contribute. Dave lives and breathes gratuitous patronization. It's time to toss a little back at him. -- Ed Huntress |
#320
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Take yer gun to the mall
"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:45:56 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: Do you do a lot of dry fire practice before going to bed? Uh oh! How much is a lot? Is this one of the ... shudder... telltale signs? In my last CCF class (4th), the instructor stressed that we should wear an unloaded (duh) gun around the house in the same configuration we would when going out. And to practice pulling it out slowly and quickly to see if there were any restrictions or malfunctions of equipment, such as snaps, potential hangups, and just things one would want to know before being in a tactical situation. It made sense to me. I do it occasionally, and it's kinda fun. Sometimes me and my girlfriend have this game ............ but I digress ................ Steve |
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