On Nov 26, 5:50 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:59:17 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:


However, you didn't just say "the water at the tap will be hotter".
You said it would be "too hot" and that the OP could turn down his HWH
to compensate. I think that is where we have a difference of opinion.


I NEVER said that. Go back and look.

You are correct sir, I quoted the wrong poster. We're even, I didn't
say the water wouldn't be hotter at the tap, as you claimed I did (or
claimed I "seemed" to say) and you didn't say it would get too hot, as
I claimed you did. Call it a wash.


Here's what you said, though:

"Please explain how insulating the pipes to the tap will increase the
temperature of the water."

It clearly WILL raise the temp at the point of use.

Again, I never said it wouldn't. All I did was ask for an explanation.
Why are you reading so much into that question? Go back and read the
rest of my posts. I have agreed a number of times that there will be
heat loss from both standing water and flowing water in an uninsulated
pipe. My only addition to that fact is that I feel the temperature
difference at the tap will be so minimal as to be negligible.


Yes, there will be heat loss when the water stands in the pipe, but
even if you were able to insulate against that from happening, that by
itself would not raise the temperature at the tap, it would only allow
the tap to produce hot water quicker, thus saving water.

Are you daft? There is heat loss when hot water is running through the pipe, as
well as when the pipe sits idle.

Interesting comment. Either you didn't read my next statement, where I
clearly agreed that there is heat loss as the water is running through
the pipe, or you read it and felt no need to remove the "daft"
comment. Perhaps you forgot you wrote it by the time you finished
reading the following sentence?

Please allow me to quote myself: "And yes, there is heat loss as the
"new" water is traveling through the pipe"



And yes, there is heat loss as the "new" water is traveling through
the pipe, but the only point I was making is that insulating the pipes
to prevent that heat loss will not raise the temperature at the taps
*enough* that the thermostat can be lowered. As I implied earlier, I
have never measured the temp as it left the HWH and compared it to the
temp as it came out of the tap, but I'm guessing that the heat loss is
so minimal that (1) the user wouldn't even notice it and (2) the
adjustment on the average HWH isn't precise enough to accurately
compensate for it. In other words, it wouldn't be "too hot".

If I look up "assume" in the dictionary, can I expect to see your picture? LOL

OK, be honest, tell me - Do *you* think the end user is going to
notice the difference between the hot water at the tap from an
insulated basement pipe vs. an uninsulated pipe? Perhaps they will
notice the difference in the time it takes to get hot water to the
tap, but do you think they will notice a difference in the
temperature? Do you think it will be enough to require the HWH to be
turned down? Please don't read any more into those questions than
there is. I'm actually curious to know if you think the insulation
will make a humanly perceivable difference in the temperature of the
water at the tap.



Now, to actually offer something in direct answer to the OP's
question, I have read that if you do nothing else, you should insulate
the first few feet of the hot water pipe as it leaves the HWH. This is
because heat rises and as the vertical section of pipe at the HWH
cools, it can draw heat from the water in the tank, cooling it down,
and causing the tank to cycle more often. Once you get more than few
feet away, the heat draw begins to decrease to a point where it is
negligible.


Immaterial and irrelevant to all previous discussion

How so? A major part of this discussion is whether insulated the
water pipes in the basement would make sense. I simply pointed out a
particular section of piping that will certainly make sense,
especially in light of the fact that tap water from a HWH is part of
the "previous discussion".