On Nov 25, 9:15 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Bob the Tomato wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:20:27 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

"Brian Henderson" wrote in
message

The question is, does that extra quality translate into additional
capacity for the tool, does it actually work that much better than
an "inferior" tool to make it worth the additional cost. There
comes a point where miniscule improvements only come at a much
more
than miniscule cost. Does it really matter if your table saw top
is
flat within a billionth of an inch? Is it worth an extra 20% to
get it that flat?

Most people would say no.

The hard part is finding out exactly where that point is on the
curve. Yes, I'm willing to pay more for accuracy. For 20% more,
it
had better be noticeable. At 10%, it had better be useable. At
5%,
there is a certain satisfaction knowing the tool is capable when
needed, even if never needed to that accuracy. If I can spot the
differences at ten paces, it is worth the extra. If I need an
electron microscope, to tell the difference, I'll pay something
less
of a difference.

While tools made in China is the question here, the same set of
rules
applies to other purchases as well, even made in the USA versus
made
in the USA. Most everything is engineered to be barely acceptable
in
the name of lower price and/or more profit. Would I pay more for a
Delta made here? I did buy a hose reel for the garden this year
and
paid $179 if that helps answer your question. Last one I'll ever
have to buy and it works greathttp://www.rapidreel.com/

I think, at a certain point it becomes obvious that a company is
trying to bilk you for every red cent they can. Walk thru the tool
dept at Sears lately? It's more like Harbor Freight than Home
Depot.
Yet the prices are still up there. Sears used to mean quality...
the
best. Now it means the bean counters are going to grind the
company's
formerly good name into the dirt to make a good profit this quarter.

Huh? Was in there a couple of days ago, they still have the Bosch
jigsaws and the Orion hybrid saws and the polished wrenches and so on
that they had a year ago.

Their reputation was made on hand tools, not power, and finish on
their hand tools is better than it was 20 years ago. They see Snap-on
as their competitor in that market and it shows. But even in that
market Craftsman was never "the best", they were what you got if you
couldn't afford Snap-On.

Their Craftsman Professional power tools have always been decent,
seldom the best in the industry but one could count on them to do what
they were supposed to do and still can. One example is their jigsaw,
which is clearly a relabelled Bosch (and jigsaws don't _come_ better
than Bosch) but not the latest and greatest model. I've seen
accusations that the Craftsman Professional tools are cheapened
versions, but I've never seen anyone post side-by-side photos of their
innards that demonstrates this, it's always been vague assertions.

Their bench tools have always been a mixed bag--some have been decent,
some crap. Right now their Orion table saws are probably the best
table saw they've ever sold under their own brand. Their radial arm
saws are mechanically pretty much like they were 30 years ago, they've
just changed the trim and added a few bells and whistles over the
years. Their new band saws are quite good--they cut corners on
features, not on cutting ability.

I don't mind paying for quality. Once in a while I buy cheap, if it
passes the grade. But I will pass the junk every time. If there is
a
quality tool available, I will buy it if I can.


Agreed. I've currently got a 10" Craftsman Industrial tablesaw, and a
friend has the early production Orion hybrid I used to have. Both are
excellent tools. I've also got a refurb 15" planer, which is very
good. I need to look at the new bandsaws. Currently, a Steel City 16"
draws my praise...it is Taiwanese, I think, and very, very well made.
Trunnions are cast iron (not always the case in bandsaws under 20")
and all is well made.

As a general statement, I think there has been a basic upgrading of
quality in the past two decades, with more and more woodworkers
demanding better tools. A lot of the perceived faults we bitch about
these days might have been overlooked in the '70s, '80s and maybe even
into the '90s. Not today.

Yes, some Chinese/Taiwanese tools are junk, evennow, regardless of the
name on the tool, but an awful lot of that is the fault of the company
providing the specs and inspections. For example, 17-18-19 years ago,
any framing nailer cost upwards of $375, often way upwards. Today, a
decent brand name framing nailer may be had for well under $250. Why?
IMO, a large part of the credit goes to Porter-Cable, which started
getting decent production out of Taiwan by the simple matter of
sending an inspector over there, full time as I was told, with the
authority to reject anything that didn't meet standards.

I also don't have a real problem with Harbor Freight tools. They are
cheaply made, but they are also sold cheap. There's not a whole lot of
BS and artifice in their sales techniques. You pay 25 bucks for a
biscuit joiner, and you get a 25 buck (or close to it) biscuit joiner,
but you have no right to expect anything else, and HF doesn't tell you
you should.