"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

I happen to think that they do a pretty fair job on mainstream 'popular'
music, compared to other items of similar size and functionality, and
do a creditable job of holding their own against bigger systems from
other manufacturers...

That's probably not a tenable view. The single-piece CSW system I mentioned
would probably beat the Wave, but not having heard them together, I'm not
sure. The CSW certainly has the advantage of being larger and having a
separate, separately driven woofer.

As a classical listener, I'm highly critical of sound quality. I assume
serious jazz listeners would be comparably critical.


...but I consider it silly to start saying, like some on here do, that
they don't compare to multi-thousand dollar systems with speakers
that cost more than a small car, just because Bose imply in their
advertising that they can rival big(ger) systems.

Bose doesn't imply -- they say it outright. Which is one of my gripes.


I don't suppose that they were considering that anybody would be
foolish enough to make such unrealistic comparisons, either ...

This is also one of the points of contention. Granted, Bose products are
squarely aimed at people who _don't_ want to get involved in choosing and
setting up a component system. There's nothing wrong with this. But Bose's
advertising and dealer policies are aimed at making sure that such a
comparison never occurs.

It's worth noting that Bang & Olufsen makes products aimed at much the same
market as Bose. I haven't recently looked at their prices to see how they
compare with separate components. But I've never heard anyone accuse B&O
products of being overpriced mediocrities. (Pricey, perhaps...)

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/page.asp?id=34

Might I ask a blunt question? If you ran a retail store, would you sell
indifferent, overpriced products just because they had a good profit margin
and customers were presold on them? I wouldn't, and I don't think you would,
either.


As you say, it fills a niche market for people with enough money
to spend, by their own free choice, on a product that they feel fills
their needs, or indeed lifestyle choices.

One of the issues here is whether one should attempt to force a company to
stop lying about a product to customers who don't really _care_ they're
being lied to.

As to whether the purchase of a Bose product is a free choice... If people
were less gullible, there would be less dishonest advertising.

I will call Cambridge SoundWorks Monday and complain about their stooping to
Bose's level. (It's wrong to gripe about one firm while ignoring the
qualitatively identical behavior of another.) Indeed, if CSW were _honest_
about the quality of their product, they could turn it to their marketing
advantage, by implicitly calling Bose a liar.


As far as a lack of controls on the actual unit goes, I think that
is more of a 'lifestyle" thing than anything else.

It's nice for people who are afraid of knobs and switches. But much
electronic equipment -- including high-end audiophile stuff -- has few
front-panel controls. There are too many features and options for dedicated
controls -- not to mention the high cost of implementing them.


Anyway, I'm sure that you, as indeed most of the others on here,
understand my position on all of this.

I understand your position very well! I just vehemently disagree with it.


I don't believe that as a company they are out and out liars to the
public, but I will accept that their advertising material and pitch blurb
is -- how shall we say -- "rosy"?

It all depends on how you define lying. Strictly speaking, a lie is a
conscious untruth. But (to me), ignorance of whether what you say is correct
is no excuse.

The lies started with the 2201. Dr. Bose was not a particularly perceptive
listener. He did not do his homework and came to the wrong conclusions.


The fact that they are protective of their products, and sell through
main dealers or own shops, and have a particular way that they like
their systems presented and marketed, is not lying by preventing
comparison. It is just effective sales strategy.

This is a complex issue that can't easily be covered in a few paragraphs,
but I'll try.

Businesses have to make money to stay in business. Not surprisingly, they
want to make the most money with the least effort. If a manufacturer offers
you a profitable product that's more or less pre-sold to the customer, that
few other stores carry so you won't be under much pressure to discount it,
you're likely to want to carry it.

But you have to dance with the Devil. In exchange for all these advantages,
you're often forced to "push" the product on an unwilling customer, or demo
it in ways that don't allow the customer to make a fair comparison.

I once worked for a store that sold Audio Research and Magnepan. In exchange
for an exclusive franchise in the Philadelphia area, we were pretty much
obliged to shove these products down the customers' throats. I had no
problem "encouraging" the purchase of ARC products, as they were very good,
but I did not like Magneplanars (nor the Protestant fundamentalists who
manufactured them). I wanted to help customers find what they liked, not
talk them into buying something they weren't altogether enthusiastic about.

A sale is a social transaction. One of the reasons a customer chooses to buy
an expensive audio system is that they trust the salesperson. I would prefer
to tell the customer how I honestly feel about a product * than tell them
what I need to make my commission.

When I joined Tau Beta Pi, the American engineering fraternity, I promised
that "my word would be the same to buyer and seller". I see nothing wrong
with that.

* Several customers complimented me to my boss about my honesty.


In much the same way, you will have a hard time, for instance, trying to
compare a Ferrari to a Lambo at the same garage.

But one doesn't judge autos in the same way one judges sound reproduction.


And please, William, this is a reply to Mark's points, and doesn't require
another endless list of 'proofs' to show me how, if I think about it some
more, I am wrong in everything that I say.

It's not your facts as much as it is your attitude.