On Oct 27, 1:59 pm, Frugal Farmer
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:01:53 -0700, wrote:
So you got two very different answers to your question in two days.
You reported yesterday that the answer was that VISA would not cover
the transaction through Paypal because the charge was legitimately
placed by Paypal, (the merchant who they have a contract with), and
then sent on to some other party who you actually have the problem
- yes, that' right. And they said the same today. And they're
getting mighty sick of me calling in asking the same question. I give
them my card# and they pull up a history of my calls and then repeat
what was said the last time.
My basic, no-fee visa doesnt have the protection of perhaps
gold/platinum or whatever cards. Especially in a case when paypal
clearly said - insured up to $200 - buyer beware.
And I didnt purchase their (visa) "purchase protection insurance".
Therefore, if I "just pay" for something, dispute it a few weeks
later, I will not get the same attention as somebody else with
additional perks on his card.
with. Today, they tell you they will, but only if you either
1 - Prove fraud occurred. But the question is, fraud by whom? They
could later very easily say that means that the fraud has to be by
their merchant, Paypal. And Paypal wasn;t the fraud.
fraud as in not shipping or not intending to ship or shipping empty
box, etc. No protection for damaged, missing or some other debate
able reason. Their main point is that it is a lot of hassle for my
bank to hold somebody responsible when the money is already gone. The
bank wont eat it and paypal wont eat it since the seller already spent
it.
2 - Do some special documented transaction through VISA.
yes, visa specifically wants to review the sales contract and
description of goods beforehand to process a potential claim. It
becomes a secure sale, in effect C.O.D. Eventhough, the seller
(probably) gets a confirmation he is getting money, he cannot use the
money until he delivers. Once I sign for goods, the funds are
released.
again, dont shoot me just because this is how my bank/visa does it. It
might be different for everybody else.
You can see the problem here. You got two different answers to the
same question in 24 hours. And neither of them says what many people
- not really. just two different options how to conduct an online
purchase.
here are claiming, which is that if you just use a credit card through
Paypal on their website, like everyone would, you don't have the
credit card protection that you would if you used it directly with a
merchant who takes VISA.
ebay/paypal are probably exceptions to the general rule due to their
size and convoluted way of processing payments. they have the weight
behind them to negotiate their own terms and do things their way.
No, Paypal is different because the credit card company has a
contractual relationship with Paypal, not the person you had Paypal
wire it to after they received the funds on a legitimate processing
request from you. It's almost like taking a cash advance on your CC
at an ATM, then taking the cash, buying a fake watch, getting ripped
off, and expecting the CC bank to cover it. If this guy took CC
directly, then VISA would have a contractual relationship with him,
would have checked his credit worthiness, etc. With the money going
through Paypal, the CC bank has no way of knowing who the money is
sent to or for what.
And if this winds up screwed, what happens when the next person at
VISA tells you something different? This isn't a simple issue and I
my visa logs history and contents of phone calls
Which is better than nothing, but you don't know exactly what is
recorded there in a few brief notes or how it will be interpreted if
you come calling for $3500 and they aren't so eager to pay.
would not trust what anyone told me verbally as you have no proof
later. I'd want to see VISA's policy in writing that explicitly
deals with Paypal transactions.
I asked too and visa didnt provide anything. Just told me to deal
directly with cust. service (visa) before engaging in shady
transactions that dont look straight forward.
The only thing I can tell you is I had this exact problem with a
Paypal transaction through Citibank VISA. I bought a set of alloy
- each bank has its own way of resolving disputes; especially if they
also sell insurance, charge purchase protection fees, etc. Also the
paypal rules are convoluted. see hehttp://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...tside#consumer...
about 3/4 down, paragraph VII - 5 (credit cards)
The safest solution to your problem is an escrow service. Check it
out on Ebay. I think escrow.com is their recommended escrow
service. The only problems are most sellers won't go through the
hassle and of course someone has to pay the fee.
in a way, that's what my visa does except the seller doesnt know that
if he fails to live up to his end of the contract (deliver what was
promised), he wont see the dough.
Maybe I'm missing something, but since he wants money in his bank
BEFORE he ships, how will he not know that payment hasn't been
received until you agree you are satisfied either way?
You just contact the seller, tell him exactly what you want, and ask
him to put it up on Ebay as a fixed price listing which you can then
good idea, i didnt know I had that option
buy. If he won't, then I'd say that's the end of it. Do you want
to do business with someone that you have to force to even start doing
he already provided me with a quote, invoice, terms, conditions, etc.
(i am looking at it right now) so at this point I want him to deliver
what he promised to deliver or admit he is a crook. At this point I
am so irate for wasting so much time on this and being flamed so many
times for asking what I thought were legit questions that this time I
need to **** on somebody too. And I am ready to send the seller's
invoices and sales contract to ebay if I find out exactly who wants
them.
http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter...ml?_trksid=m40
You can report him there. If you have a quote for those shingles he
sent to you to sell them to you outside of Ebay, it is a clear
violation. I'd be very interested in hearing what, if any, response
you get, other than a form email back.
an ethical transaction? The fact that he only has 10 feedbacks and I
think most of them were as buyer would be my main concern. I'd never
that's because he conducts business off-line and uses eBay to
advertise his goods. Those Tamko shingles have been on his eBay since
at least March/07.
unless you do the escrow or can pick it up and pay then. And any
legitimate business seller should understand that.
I really struggle to understand why he conducts his business "cash
only". Perhaps he doesnt have any inventory/warehouse and doesnt want
to take responsibility if something goes wrong.
Maybe because his credit and banking history is so bad that he the
credit card companies won't do business with him.