On Oct 27, 10:53 am, Frugal Farmer
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 05:40:57 GMT, "Gini" wrote:

wrote
"Gini" wrote:
wrote in message
..................................

==
All your questions *of merit* have been answered here. See eBay "Help" to
resolve any
further confusion you may have pertaining to eBay rules. Hey. I know--ask on
alt.marketing.online.ebay. They are
real friendly folks over there who love helping newbies.
==

I don't want to step on anybody's toes, so just relax and don't bite
my head off, shoot my dog or electrocute my cat over nothing. This
information and clarification I provide is for future reference to
those who may need it. Not to inflame another war.

My basic goal was to get steel shingles and not get duped by an
unscrupulous seller. I found what I was looking for on eBay. Many
recommended I use credit card as I will be protected. Many of you
also here recommended I don't deal with that eBay seller and go
elsewhere as he doesn't appear to be legit and the use of credit cards
wont protect me. Sound advice so why am I still here? For exactly
the same reason as everybody else - so I can create and negotiate my
own price instead of being told what the price is.

Anyway, I found out from my visa cust. service dept. this morning that
my basic, no-fee visa, as a rule of thumb, does NOT protect me for
THIS kind of purchase and I am on my own since terms of the purchase
are clearly spelled out - protected up to $200 and on the hook for the
rest. The charge wont (will NOT) be reversed unless I can prove fraud
occurred.

That said, I was also told that if I provide documentation (sales
contract) prior to the transaction taking place, my visa will "clear
the path" for this purchase. I gather this purchase becomes C.O.D. if
the bank knows ahead of time who, what, when, how.. In that case YES,
I am protected and they WILL reverse the entire charge regardless
what paypal offers ($200).

In fact, my visa wants to know about all shady and out of the ordinary
transactions prior to the purchase taking place so banks have time to
freeze funds until the transaction completes successfully and
everybody makes good on the sales contract. In their own words, it is
a fraction of the effort and cost to prevent damage as opposed to
unwinding damage after the fact.


So you got two very different answers to your question in two days.
You reported yesterday that the answer was that VISA would not cover
the transaction through Paypal because the charge was legitimately
placed by Paypal, (the merchant who they have a contract with), and
then sent on to some other party who you actually have the problem
with. Today, they tell you they will, but only if you either

1 - Prove fraud occurred. But the question is, fraud by whom? They
could later very easily say that means that the fraud has to be by
their merchant, Paypal. And Paypal wasn;t the fraud.

2 - Do some special documented transaction through VISA.

You can see the problem here. You got two different answers to the
same question in 24 hours. And neither of them says what many people
here are claiming, which is that if you just use a credit card through
Paypal on their website, like everyone would, you don't have the
credit card protection that you would if you used it directly with a
merchant who takes VISA.

And if this winds up screwed, what happens when the next person at
VISA tells you something different? This isn't a simple issue and I
would not trust what anyone told me verbally as you have no proof
later. I'd want to see VISA's policy in writing that explicitly
deals with Paypal transactions.

The only thing I can tell you is I had this exact problem with a
Paypal transaction through Citibank VISA. I bought a set of alloy
wheels on Ebay that was clearly and seriously misrepresented as being
like new. I used the VISA on Paypal. The picture of the item was of
different wheels, probably brand new ones, and definitely not the ones
being sold which were old, dirty, serious curb rash, dings, etc.
Instead of like new, they were worse than the ones I had on the
car. The answer I got from Citibank VISA was clear. They
considered Paypal the legitimate charger, the transaction was vailid
and they would not get involved.

Ultimately, after a long dispute process with Paypal and Ebay, I did
get most of my money back. I still did not get back shipping, had to
pay for return shipping and all told, I probably lost $40 on a $175
transaction.

The other thing you will learn if you go through this process is
unlike VISA, which has someone to answer the phone, with Paypal you're
talking to a server. I never spoke with anyone during the entire
dispute process You shuffled off to an electronic robot type system
that tries to resolve everything with minimal human intervention.

The safest solution to your problem is an escrow service. Check it
out on Ebay. I think escrow.com is their recommended escrow
service. The only problems are most sellers won't go through the
hassle and of course someone has to pay the fee.





follow a special documentation procedure for the





That was the first half of my puzzle. The second half of the puzzle
was how to make the seller compromise so it is a win-win situation
rather than him holding all the cards once he gets all my money.

As everybody knows by now, it is not possible to complete the entire
purchase on eBay as only one part (shingles) of the entire assembly
(ridges, nails, clips, gables, valleys, felt, shingles,...) are being
offered by the seller. There is a considerable risk in buying all
these parts separately due to availability or color mismatch as all is
manufactured in small lots. The seller (and buyer) knows that.
Therefore, the entire package of parts needs to be negotiated
off-line. And Gini found the key to the whole issue he

the question about what happens if I list shingles for sale and then
find out the guy who's buying the shingles also needs felt and
nails? Must I put them through Ebay?

==
Yes.
==



I'd still like to see on Ebay where it specifies that. Sears, for
example, sells items like air compressors on Ebay. If I want a hose
with it, is it a violation of Ebay policy for them to sell it to me
via their online or walk-in store?

I can understand if you were deliberatly splitting up a major part of
the sale, but I can't believe Ebay demands that if a guy asks me for
nails, which were never listed, in addition to the shingles, that I
have to then list that on Ebay. Zillions of companies are selling all
kind of stuff like this and have online stores. How the hell is
anybody supposed to keep track of which channel someone is buying
accesories?






Had I known then that instead of arguing with the seller about
(not)paying via WU off-line I could have forced him back to the eBay
table and pay with visa once I notified my bank this transaction is
going down, you all could have been focusing on other more important
things in alt.house.repair, like JoeSpareBedroom's meds.

Furthermore, I now realize this was the wrong place to ask an eBay
question. I had no idea this alt.marketing.online.ebay was in
existence.

Also, I can see alt.house.repair is not the right place to ask my next
question - what eBay rule I use to force the off-line deal through
eBay auction as for a fact I know somebody will **** on my head
because I am taking them away from JoeSpareBedroom's "dancing with the
losers" saga - an appropriate topic for a Bob Villa tv show.


You just contact the seller, tell him exactly what you want, and ask
him to put it up on Ebay as a fixed price listing which you can then
buy. If he won't, then I'd say that's the end of it. Do you want
to do business with someone that you have to force to even start doing
an ethical transaction? The fact that he only has 10 feedbacks and I
think most of them were as buyer would be my main concern. I'd never
do business for a major purchase with someone with so little
feedback. I might buy a $10 widget, but not $3500 worth of material,
unless you do the escrow or can pick it up and pay then. And any
legitimate business seller should understand that.





So that's where I am going next but I tell you this, it was no fun
getting dumped on just for asking an innocent newbie question.

Nice work. the OP gets it now and is signing off. See you in
alt.ebay.