w_tom wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:15 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:


No, not unless the connection to the water pipe is within 5 feet of the
entrance.

I disagree with Doug on this point. If the connection to the water pipe
was code compliant when installed - connection used to be allowed other
than within 5 ft - the installation is OK now unless modifications are
made that trigger new construction requirements.

And on to the village idiot.


Code demands that the AC electric have a proper connection to earth
ground. Any one of the electrodes in paragraphs two through seven are
sufficient. The electrode defined in paragraph one (water pipe) is
not sufficient.

As Doug points out, the village idiot rewrites the code. The code says
paragraph *1-6*. Paragraph *1* is water pipe - required by code to be
used as a grounding electrode. When reality conflicts with the beliefs
of the village idiot, he tries to change reality.


Assume that John Ross was correct - that ALL earthing electrodes must
be connected. Then every steel I-beam concreted in earth must be
bonded to the breaker box.

The steel frame of a commercial buildings is one of the lowest earth
resistance electrodes. As Doug points out, the frame (generally) must be
used as a grounding electrode. It does not apply to each member. Anyone
who can read and think could figure that out from the NEC.

All rebar inside concrete footing must be bonded. Rebar
inside any concrete basement floor must be bonded.

Completely idiotic statement. The NEC does not required rebar be used at
all - a length of copper wire can be used. And only required for new
construction. And does not apply to floor.

Any steel plate
buried in earth must be bonded.

If the village idiot would read the NEC, this applies to a plate that is
specifically buried to be used as an earthing electrode.


Any "other local metal underground
system or structure such as piping systems and underground
tanks" (quoted from paragraph seven) must also be connected to breaker
box.

This is “paragraph 7". The NEC does not require these items be used as
grounding electrodes. Only w_’s renumbering includes “7".


According to John, if any of those six items exist, then they
also must be bonded to the breaker box.

Not according to Doug, according to the NEC.



Why are bonding wires not attached to every of six items? Because
Doug Miller is wrong.

Because w_ is unable to read and understand what the NEC really
requires. Truly incomprehensible misrepresentations.

The breaker box only needs one earthing
electrode that conforms to paragraphs two through seven.

The electrical system needs only one earthing electrode *system* than
conforms to paragraphs *1-6*.
The NEC says “All grounding electrodes... that are present”, not just
your favorite one.

Listed are six earthing electrodes that would not be
connected to breaker box because nothing was using them for earth
ground.

They are used as earthing electrodes because they improve the connection
of the electrical system to earth. It is totally irrelevant whether the
6 electrode types are used by phone or other utilities.

According to Doug Miller, all six of those electrodes also
must be connected by 6 AWG wire.

Where did Doug say that? “Concrete encased electrode” is #4. Water pipe
and structural steel the size of the conductor goes up with the service
size reflecting their superior connection to the earth.


If you want to bond the 'first five feet of water pipe' to breaker
box, then by all means do so.

For those without a mental impairment, water pipe (10 ft ....) is
*required* to be used as an earthing electrode.


A metal underground tank is an earthing electrode according to
paragraph seven. But if not being used by anything as an earth
ground, then AC breaker box also need not be bonded to that
underground tank ... in direct contradiction to what Doug Miller and

I never said underground tank must be used as a grounding electrode
because the NEC does not say the tank must be used.

naive salesman Bud have posted.

To quote w_ "It is an old political trick. When facts cannot be
challenged technically, then attack the messenger." Not able to compete
on facts, w_ has to try to discredit those who challenge his bullcrap.

Poor w_ seems to have a significant mental impairment. Virtually
everything he said was wrong. Perhaps the institution should limit his
use of the internet.

–-
bud--