Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com, John Ross wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, w_tom
wrote:
On Sep 28, 8:06 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
And now you've gone and gotten it wrong again. Metal water pipe is
*required*
to be used as a grounding electrode. You said it's not. That's not true.

Code only requires water pipe must be bonded. That 'bonding' to
remove fault currents from pipes. Code does not require water pipe to
be used as an earth ground.

False.

"All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(6) that
are
present ... shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system.
.. 250.52(A)(1) Metal underground water pipe."

If it's there, Code requires it to be used "to form the grounding electrode
system" i.e. as an earth ground.

However code is written so that a water
pipe may also be an earthing electrode

Wrong -- it MUST be a grounding electrode if it's present.

- albeit insufficient. If
water pipe is used as an earthing electrode, that still in not
sufficient to meet code requirements for earthing as stated in article
250.52(D).

True -- but not relevant to the question of whether using it is optional or
required. If it's present at all, its use as part of the grounding electrode
system is MANDATORY.

Doug, as it is now the only ground is to the water pipe, but back then
they just connected it any convenient place near panel--not within 5
foot of pipe entrance. So if I have the ground rod installed AND leave
the current situation, am I right in that it will still serve as a
earth ground AND a bonding to the pipes.

No, not unless the connection to the water pipe is within 5 feet of the
entrance.

BTW, it is still all metal,
so if not required, I would assume it is ok just to leave that as is.
Does that satisfy what you said above?

Ground rod, and connection to the metal water pipe within 5' of the point at
which it enters the building.

Doug, I understand what you are saying about current code. My point
was that in 1960 they didn't care where on the pipe it was located. As
it is now, it IS the ground for the house, but probably nowhere near 5
feet from entrance.

My understanding is that rule was simply because of worry of plastic
pipes being used in repairs etc. So what I was saying was that IF they
don't require the current code for that if installing a ground rod, I
still will have a ground to earth through the pipes since it is still
all metal. Someone said there were "other" reasons to do with stray
currents in the first 5 feet etc. and you ridiculed him. So I assume
that code or no code, just adding a ground rod won't magically make my
present pipe earth ground disappear. Agree?

--
John