John Ross wrote:

bud-- wrote:
w_tom wrote:

Does not matter whether the water pipe is or is
not an earthing electrode to breaker box. The error was that the
state of the water pipe (if or if not an electrode) is completely
irrelevant. The code now says some other earthing electrode from
paragraphs two through seven MUST be installed.
Only for new installations. Adding ground wires for receptacles is not
likely to trigger installation of a "supplemental" electrode.

Yes exceptions
exist. But those exceptions do not apply here. John had no earthing
electrode.
John has a water service pipe electrode.

What John considered an earth ground was not connected
'less than 5 feet' from earth; therefore was not an earthing
electrode.
What John has was code compliant when it was installed. There is no
requirement to change the connection unless he changes the service.

He must install one that meets current codes.
Bullcrap. He also doesn't have to bring his whole house up to the
current electrical code.

Your stupidity is breathtaking.

--
bud--

Even though I probably don't *have* to to it, I assume adding the
ground rod would be a good idea since the added cost is minimal--I
assume you agree? One thing on that aspect: this area generally has
hardpan soil condition. Is that good or bad news?

But as far as these wire sizes everyone is throwing around: is that
required or suggested? I hear this size 6 mentioned. Is that the code
from the rod to the panel or is that just suggested. Also, does that
change with the size of the service (this is 100 amp)? I think this
latest electrician said something about size 10 or 8.

And, if it is bonded correctly to the first five feet of pipe, what
size of wire is require for that (that would be around a 30 foot run)?

I never would have imagined trying to ground a receptacle would turn
into such an ordeal! And, like I said, not one of these electricians
know what I am talking about when I qquote the NEC codes you guys
mention. Scary...Had I not asked in here, I would have gone with that
one guy who had the isolated ground rod that made no sense now that it
was explained to me here.

BTW, I thought I was clever and called the electrical supply places
for a recommendation for an electrician. They were of no help. Can
anyone think of another source that would know a good electrician?

--
John


John
I'll get grief for this but I suggest you call the nearest office of the
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW). Numerous people
will now tell you that they will cost too much but that just isn't so.
On average a unionized shop employs twelve electricians. The pricing of
Electrical work is very competitive. The difference between a unionized
shop and a non union shop is not what the customer pays but that more of
what you pay goes to wages and benefits. Better pay attracts better
electricians. A union inside wireman has four years of formal training.
A union residential wireman has at least two years of formal training
and four years of supervised field experience before they can work
unsupervised. I am self employed but I was trained by the Joint
Apprenticeship and Training Program of the National Electrical
Contractors Association (NECA) and the IBEW. The Union local office
will be happy to give you the names of three NECA member contractors
that do residential work. You will then have a better chance of getting
a quality job. No group of electricians is completely free of
dunderheads but using a union shop will at least improve your odds.
--
Tom Horne